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Old 09-27-2009, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
757 posts, read 802,887 times
Reputation: 238

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, all humanity is included. All you gotta do is allow Christ into your heart and you are "in" regardless of your religion.
There is no hell. All that ended when Christ died on the cross for humanity's sins. Hell is a means for organized religion to control you through the use of fear. Kinda like George Bush's ADM did for 8 years!
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:06 PM
 
4,145 posts, read 10,427,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okccowboy View Post
There is no hell. All that ended when Christ died on the cross for humanity's sins. Hell is a means for organized religion to control you through the use of fear. Kinda like George Bush's ADM did for 8 years!
Christ DID die for all humanity's sins, BUT we have the choice to accept that, or not. Our trust in Him is totally optional. He WANTS us to. But he doesn't force us to. You're free to turn your back on Him, and while it tears His heart out when some do, that's a choice we're allowed to make.

There absolutely is a hell, and it's where non-believers will find themselves.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
757 posts, read 802,887 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford View Post
Christ DID die for all humanity's sins, BUT we have the choice to accept that, or not. Our trust in Him is totally optional. He WANTS us to. But he doesn't force us to. You're free to turn your back on Him, and while it tears His heart out when some do, that's a choice we're allowed to make.

There absolutely is a hell, and it's where non-believers will find themselves.
So using your logic, some sinners sin is not forgiven because they do not "accept" Christ?
Ya, now pass the donation plate!!!
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,621,806 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by okccowboy View Post
There is no hell. All that ended when Christ died on the cross for humanity's sins. Hell is a means for organized religion to control you through the use of fear. Kinda like George Bush's ADM did for 8 years!
According to the Bible there is eternal life, which comes through Christ, and then there is death.

Eternal life is described as life in paradise with God, while death is described as eternal torment in lake of fire with Satan. When you are saved, your name is written in the 'book of life'. If your name is not found in the book of life you will end up in the lake of fire aka hell.

Revelation 20

10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever


And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.
The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:18 PM
 
507 posts, read 678,506 times
Reputation: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford View Post
Christ DID die for all humanity's sins, BUT we have the choice to accept that, or not. Our trust in Him is totally optional. He WANTS us to. But he doesn't force us to. You're free to turn your back on Him, and while it tears His heart out when some do, that's a choice we're allowed to make.

There absolutely is a hell, and it's where non-believers will find themselves.
This is a question I've always had. What if someone was born, raised, and died in a situation where they never have any exposure to Christianity. This person practiced and believed strongly in another faith all their life, and never thought or learned about Christianity. Surely, that person never had a choice in the matter. They simply followed what they knew. Is this person going to hell even though they may have been a wonderful person? This is one thing I have never been able to reconcile about Christianity. Under this belief about two-thirds of the world population will go to hell even when many of those people where never given a choice. I simply can't believe or support that.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
757 posts, read 802,887 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
According to the Bible there is eternal life, which comes through Christ, and then there is death.

Eternal life is described as life in paradise with God, while death is described as eternal torment in lake of fire with Satan. When you are saved, your name is written in the 'book of life'. If your name is not found in the book of life you will end up in the lake of fire aka hell.

Revelation 20

10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever


And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.
The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Considering all the disease, pain, suffering, hate that exists in the World, if there is a Hell we're living it now.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,621,806 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17th Street View Post
This is a question I've always had. What if someone was born, raised, and died in a situation where they never have any exposure to Christianity. This person practiced and believed strongly in another faith all their life, and never thought or learned about Christianity. Surely, that person never had a choice in the matter. They simply followed what they knew. Is this person going to hell even though they may have been a wonderful person? This is one thing I have never been able to reconcile about Christianity. Under this belief about two-thirds of the world population will go to hell even when many of those people where never given a choice. I simply can't believe or support that.
Some things we won't know for sure until we die, but there is this parable in the bible (see below). According to this, an atheist who knows of Christ but deliberately turns his back to him and even gives false testimony against him, will receive a harsher punishment than someone who never had a chance o know him :

"And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, shall receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. And from everyone who has been given much shall much be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more. (Luke 12:47-48)
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:29 PM
 
183 posts, read 114,995 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by REA88 View Post
I am bi, and used to be a christian. Here is how I can answer ur question: If a certain religion was true, not believing in it because it offended you would be an emotional reason to not believe it, not a rational one. Thankfully, I realized how silly it all was, and now my sexuality is not an internal struggle (however I have to hide it from my family which is sooooo stressful and fake feeling but I don't like my family anyway).

It would be the same if someone didn't believe in evolution because it was too cold or mean sounding (survival of the fittest, dominant genes, no morals, no reunion with family after death). You are simply deny fact for emotional reasons.

That argument works both ways. When Darwin came up with Evolution people still went outside to take a dump. If he had a better understanding of micro-biology than what was available at the time, he may have concluded that the cell is irreducibly complex. He also may have stood back and taken a broader view. See, it isn't just Evolution that has to fit. Everything we can verify through science (as we presently understand it) and our own verifiable history has to match up precisely or something has to go. Much of what is assumed to be true about the history of the Universe is speculation by people who simply weren't there at the time.

We are, through mathematical models, able to unexpand the Universe to a place and time when it would seem all the order that we know began, allegedly spontaneously and without a designer. To me, that requires suspension of disbelief. A chaotic Universe could exist with both matter and anti-matter in a looped time/space continuum, but an ordered one (any order anywhere) is a harder sell. Non-existence and disorder are the norm so I have a hard time taking spontaneous existence and order on faith.

Evolution has value to the person who has already, and for emotional reasons, concluded that a creator does not exist since it is the only theory that, by definition, rules out a creator. But there is no logical reason for making that assumption. Who has been everywhere and seen everything so as to make such an assertion? Usually it is the same person who is convinced the Universe is full of dark matter we are unable to detect and the spontaneous leap to organic life is evidenced by the existence of life. That's not science; that's the religion of Atheism.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
757 posts, read 802,887 times
Reputation: 238
Default Carlton Pearson has it right!

Black Preacher Sees No Hell, Just Love for All

Wanting to be like his great-grandfather, grandfather and father, Carlton Pearson set his young heart on becoming a Pentecostal preacher.
By 5 years old, the African-American boy was preaching to other kids in his poor Southern California neighborhood. A natural, he grew into an unusually gifted preacher and gospel singer at storefront churches, the kind with colored plastic lining their windows because they can't afford stained glass.
Pearson's talent widened his world: He went on to study at Oral Roberts University, serve on the evangelical school's board of regents, move in the most elite white evangelical circles, chat with Republican presidents and host his own three-hour gospel TV show.
He preached that AIDS was God's punishment for homosexuality, and spoke in tongues and laid hands on homosexuals to — as he saw it — cast out their demons.
But a few years ago, Pearson lost the trappings of success — including his mega-church, where collection plates overflowed with $60,000 a week. He found a more emotionally rewarding way of relating to God and people.
How?
He stopped believing in hell. He was no longer willing to preach that a loving God would doom most of humanity to a "customized torture chamber." Deciding that "if Jesus is the savior of the world, then the world is saved," Pearson started spreading "a gospel of inclusion" — proclaiming that everyone is saved, not just Christians.
Branded a heretic, shunned by other mega-church evangelists, Pearson initially felt shattered. But Jews reached out to him and so did gay students at Oral Roberts University, who asked if his inclusive gospel included them. Yes, he replied.
Soon, he was invited to preach at a gay San Francisco church. Afterward, everyone hugged him.
"I hadn't been loved like that in months by anybody, especially Christians," Pearson recalls.
And then the lesbian pastor washed his feet. "Oh my God, it was one of the holiest moments in my whole Christian life. That female gay woman with all these gay people weeping and singing and loving this (so-called) heretic and washing his feet. The people I had once denied and denounced were now my only friends," he recalls.
Pearson committed himself to being a loving brother to those of us who're gay. This spring, he led several hundred religious leaders in lobbying Congress to protect gay and transgender people from hate crimes and job discrimination.
"I am not telling people they have to love gays. I am telling people they get to love gays. ... All people want is permission," Pearson says.
He's helping the National Black Justice Coalition (NBJC) launch its "Faithful Call to Justice." Black and racially mixed churches are being asked to have gay-friendly sermons or messages in their bulletins on the first weekend in June. (If you'd like to participate, email srhue at nbjc.org.)
"The black church is where a lot of black people take their cues about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people," notes NBJC spokesman Herndon Davis.
Pearson says: "We have always had gays in the church, and some of the best music in the African-American church was written by gays. We've sung their songs and cursed their souls."
Pearson's faith in a God too loving to shun anyone opened new doors in his heart. And now he's working to help the black church and the rest of the nation walk through them.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:41 PM
 
4,145 posts, read 10,427,153 times
Reputation: 3339
Quote:
Originally Posted by okccowboy View Post
So using your logic, some sinners sin is not forgiven because they do not "accept" Christ?
Ya, now pass the donation plate!!!
Your sins can be forgiven all day, but if you don't accept Christ, Heaven isn't in your future.

You must be with one of the happy-go-lucky, I'm OK, You're OK churches, but those churches aren't true Christian churches. Being a Christian means accepting that Jesus is the one true way to Heaven.

I'd encourage you to continue reading your Bible, if you truly ARE looking to figure out what the truth is.
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