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Old 09-27-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,459,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthPoleMarathoner View Post

George Bush already reformed pub;ic schools with NCLB. He never tried to inject the Bible or creationosm into schools.

I think you might be paranoid.

He never tried to ovethrow Roe v. Wade either.
Stop insulting me. Show me in my post where I said George Bush tried to inject the bible or creationism into schools. What the hell Roe v. Wade has to do with this conversation is absolutely beyond me.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:43 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,063,100 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
While the union has screwed up, I do not think it should be disbanded. I think the union should stop protecting inept members. Teachers are paid so poorly, they need some protections that the union affords them.
Not only does the union protect inept teachers, they also fight school reform measures tooth and nail, especially when the reforms calls for greater accountability.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:49 PM
 
4,570 posts, read 4,119,485 times
Reputation: 2297
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
I would of rather privatize education and allow parents to choose their schools but I do like the Obama education plan (I do oppose the socialistic Obama government health care plan)... I like to point out the few things mentioned in the article...we should NOT be comparing other countries to our own... other cultures taking education very seriously whereas our culture does not... do not compare apples to birds...

1) Full year schooling: I like it! That's how schools should be run from the beginning... I understand back in the old days, kids were suppose to help harvest and stuff but we've grown beyond farming communities... Education doesn't stop at the beginning of summer... More is done with a longer period to study the material

If the school day is shorter, great. More short school days would continuously reinforce concepts, not let them go away with 2 months off in the summer. Long school days is pointless. Kids are never going to be able to focus like that. Most adults can't.

2) Longer school days: I like this as well! Parents work 8 hour days 9-5... kids school days ends around 3 PM... that's two hours of time that parents don't get to keep an eye on their kids... besides that... the extra two hours can be EXTREMELY useful... imagine one hour devoted to "mentoring" where kids can help kids with various subjects... another hour could be devoted exercise regimen to help keep kids healthy! Or you could offer additional classes for kids who need remediation without holding them back a year... or offer advance placement classes for kids who are great in school and can take advantage of starting earlier...

First of all 9-5 is a gross underestimation, throw in at least 30 minutes for a commute plus the screwy hours some places of business require in our 24/7 culture.

Second, kids aren't machines, they can't focus for hours on end and managing 30 of them when they're worn out is impossible for one person.

3) Open weekends?: I am not so crazy about this one because there is less bang for the buck... who is going to supervise the kids? Weekends = increased taxpayer liability... I think if there is a weekend open, it should be community sponsored (ie local property taxes voted on by the community)....

The disadvantage would be of course, the cost ... teachers don't want to work for free and expect to be paid adequately for their time... Teacher's pay varies so much due to different costs of living in various regions... Considering they worked "six-hour" days and work only 3/4 a year... I would have to look at pay schedules more carefully so that they aren't way overpaid and aren't given the shaft either... Principals and Superintendents on the otherhand are grossly overpaid...
Simple, lets get the nuns teaching again, thats what made catholic school so cheap.

Your statements make school seem like a babysitting service (longer hours because parents can't watch them). Lets figure $2 per kid per hour. (I'd love to find a babysitter this cheap)

$2 x 25 students (gross underestimation of class size) x 6 hours per day x 180 days per year.

$54,000 per teacher.

I made no where near that unless my benefits package was worth $25,000 for a single man in his 20s.

Here's a better idea get parents involved more. Lets get away from a 2 income household culture. Parents can do some one on one reinforcement of school concepts. Kids come home and mom or dad gets them studying before the TV flips on. Its pretty evident which students have the involved parents when you watch a class for a little bit. They're the ones that do the work and behave because they know if they don't, mom or dad is gonna do something about it.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:54 PM
 
4,570 posts, read 4,119,485 times
Reputation: 2297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatteress View Post
Not only does the union protect inept teachers, they also fight school reform measures tooth and nail, especially when the reforms calls for greater accountability.
Thats because reform doesn't benefit them. Offer some rewards. Greater accountability needs to be applied to all, not just the teachers. Parents holding their kids accountable for wasting class time.

I'm fine with performance based pay, but it needs to be substantial. Right now teachers are paid so horribly for the crap they put up with that you lose a lot of capable teachers with great potential because the money is not worth the crap they put up with and then the spending out of pocket on classroom, and paying out of pocket for continuing education.

Administration, and school boards are far from perfect and need to give a bit if unions are to be expected to give. Few parents seem to understand that though.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,063,100 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
Simple, lets get the nuns teaching again, thats what made catholic school so cheap.

Your statements make school seem like a babysitting service (longer hours because parents can't watch them). Lets figure $2 per kid per hour. (I'd love to find a babysitter this cheap)

$2 x 25 students (gross underestimation of class size) x 6 hours per day x 180 days per year.

$54,000 per teacher.

I made no where near that unless my benefits package was worth $25,000 for a single man in his 20s.

Here's a better idea get parents involved more. Lets get away from a 2 income household culture. Parents can do some one on one reinforcement of school concepts. Kids come home and mom or dad gets them studying before the TV flips on. Its pretty evident which students have the involved parents when you watch a class for a little bit. They're the ones that do the work and behave because they know if they don't, mom or dad is gonna do something about it.
I agree that we need to get back to the days of single family incomes as it is apparent that kids are not receiving adequate supervision. The fact that today's kids are spending too much time watching tv or playing video games is a testimony of the lack of supervision received at home. You can blame woman's lib for the necessity of dual family incomes as they fought hard for women's rights to be in the workplace. With more folks in the workplace, wages have gone down and a single wage cannot keep pace with inflation. Woman's lib has done more harm than good in our society. (Yes, I'm a woman)!
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:57 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,389 posts, read 45,111,515 times
Reputation: 13821
Quote:
Originally Posted by songgirl View Post
I guess we should not address the fact that educationally we are falling further and further behind other countries.

We either make the changes necessary to enable our children to intellectually compete, or our days as a global "superpower" are numbered.

If you haven't seen this video, I think you should take a look before making a judgement how imperative educational reforms are.



YouTube - Did You Know; Shift Happens - Globalization; Information Age
Education reform is absolutely nevessary, but it seems Obama is going about it the wrong way.

There's a long-ish discussion of the problems in this thread in which I've posted A LOT of info that everyone needs to consider:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...ants-kids.html

Read that whole thread, particularly my last post:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/10943674-post83.html

As for extending the school year, how does Obama plan to pay for that? Increase Federal income tax rates? Or will everyone have to instantly add 25-30% more to their school tax bills (usually billed via property/real estate tax)?
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,459,762 times
Reputation: 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatteress View Post

You can blame woman's lib for the necessity of dual family incomes as they fought hard for women's rights to be in the workplace. With more folks in the workplace, wages have gone down and a single wage cannot keep pace with inflation. Woman's lib has done more harm than good in our society. (Yes, I'm a woman)!
Ridiculous.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:59 PM
 
4,570 posts, read 4,119,485 times
Reputation: 2297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatteress View Post
Instead of lumping all kids together, maybe the classes should be split up between high achievers, normal achievers and low achievers (to be remediated). If the curriculum is lowered to constantly meet the needs of low achievers, don't you think that the other students will be climbing the walls with boredom? This is precisely why so many high IQ students underperform because they are not receiving the intellectual stimulation that they need to thrive academically. I was one of those students who had high potential but graduated from HS with a 2.75 average as I was not motivated to try harder due to boredom. As soon as I got to college (Thank GOD I miraculously got into a university instead of community college), I began to notice a sharp increase in my GPA due to the added rigors of college work.
I'm sorry high school was so dull for you, I'm not opposed to tracking which is what you are favoring. It still doesn't fix our problem. Our best can compete with the world's best. Our middle and lower are what drags us down.

Kids also fail not because of boredom, but because of not doing the work and then getting frustrated when they are behind. Get the parents to get kids to do the homework.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:59 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,063,100 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
Thats because reform doesn't benefit them. Offer some rewards. Greater accountability needs to be applied to all, not just the teachers. Parents holding their kids accountable for wasting class time.

I'm fine with performance based pay, but it needs to be substantial. Right now teachers are paid so horribly for the crap they put up with that you lose a lot of capable teachers with great potential because the money is not worth the crap they put up with and then the spending out of pocket on classroom, and paying out of pocket for continuing education.

Administration, and school boards are far from perfect and need to give a bit if unions are to be expected to give. Few parents seem to understand that though.
Who cares if the school reforms do not benefits unions or teachers! This should be solely about what's in the best interests of students. If the teachers and their unions don't like it, tough! We need to move past this culture of teachers rights and focus more on children's education. After all, this is what we are paying taxes for. While we are at it, let's get rid of the top heavily, overpaid management and pour more of the funding inside the classroom where teachers do not have to pay for the supplies out of pocket (which is ridiculus!).
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:59 PM
 
843 posts, read 1,300,956 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
Stop insulting me. Show me in my post where I said George Bush tried to inject the bible or creationism into schools. What the hell Roe v. Wade has to do with this conversation is absolutely beyond me.

I'm not insulting you. You said conservatives wanted to inject the Bible into education. Conservatives had the chance to do that and took a pass.

And libs are always accusing conservatives of 2 things. 1) teaching the Bible 2) overturning roe v. wade

So I stereotyped you and assumed you are all paranoid about roe v wade. Get over it.

Bye Bye.
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