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You do not understand that the United States is not as was never founded on Christianity? Shame on you for not knowing this. What little you know about the Founding Fathers and their intensions is obvious. You are on page 6 of a thread and you didn't even bother to back track to read the responses to the OP before posting your nonsensical post.
Do yourself a favor, go read a book or rely on something other than a talking head for your information and only then, attempt to come back and post a cohesive, informative and intelligent post.
Last edited by sickofnyc; 09-30-2009 at 09:42 AM..
You do not understand that the United States is not as was never founded on Christianity? Shame on you for not knowing this. What little you know about the Founding Fathers and their intensions is obvious.
Do yourself a favor, go read a book or rely on something other than a talking head for your information and only then, attempt to come back and post a cohesive, informative and intelligent post.
Yep, coming from someone who learned revisionist history. Our country was founded on Judeo Christian principles. You are such an angry, foulmouthed individual. I'm sort of surprised you haven't been banned from the site.
I get so sick of hearing crap about politics from singers like Pat Boone, Ted Nugents, and who's that old redneck singer guy? Charlie somebody? Same thing w/ actors.
I get so sick of hearing crap about politics from singers like Pat Boone, Ted Nugents, and who's that old redneck singer guy? Charlie somebody? Same thing w/ actors.
But you probably stand right behind people like Sean Penn though...
Yep, coming from someone who learned revisionist history. Our country was founded on Judeo Christian principles. You are such an angry, foulmouthed individual. I'm sort of surprised you haven't been banned from the site.
Why are you having difficulty posting any factual links to backup your nonsensical remarks?...because they do not exist. Your would like to ban truth as it makes the la la land you live in more legitimate. Sorry, truth always wins out. What else would you like to ban? The only rewriting of history has been done by the wackadoodle fundamentalist Christian crazies.
"The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity.
This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments.
Why are you having difficulty posting any factual links to backup your nonsensical remarks?...because they do not exist. Your would like to ban truth as it makes the la la land you live in more legitimate. Sorry, truth always wins out. What else would you like to ban? The only rewriting of history has been done by the wackadoodle fundamentalist Christian crazies.
"The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity.
This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments.
We can go back and forth on this all day. You are getting your info from a far left source. How about this, coming from Nietzsche, which I'm sure knew alot more about this than anyone who taught you, or the far left sources that you get your info from. I think what you're twisting around is in the symantics. We are NOT a Christian nation, meaning we have no state religion of Christianity. But the country and all of it's supporting documents were framed around Judeo Christian philosophies, NOT Theology like you are trying so hard to say.
"In effect, as Nietzsche argues, the whole concept of a democratic system, a system based on personal equality, is an attempt to deprive the privileged and strong of their right to govern and to create "morality", which is to say good and evil, right and wrong. Because the strong try to (and sometimes do) impose their judgments of value on everyone else, this inherently creates a social order of inequality. Some are privileged due to their "strength" while others are "forced" to meekly follow due to their weakness. On the other hand, under Judeo-Christian morality, or slave morality as Nietzsche calls it, everyone must be afforded the same ability and no one has claim to any special rights or privileges above anyone else, which is the foundation of a democratic society.
Thus in the question of what place does religion have in a free and democratic society, I would agree with Nietzsche in that religion, and the Judeo-Christian tradition in particular, is the foundation of a free, equal and democratic society. And if we as a society reject our Judeo-Christian heritage, we will reject the very thing that gives us our democratic society. We will lose the very foundation for our claim that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that no one should be afforded rights and privileges above, over and apart from all others."
We can go back and forth on this all day. You are getting your info from a far left source. How about this, coming from Nietzsche, which I'm sure knew alot more about this than anyone who taught you, or the far left sources that you get your info from. I think what you're twisting around is in the symantics. We are NOT a Christian nation, meaning we have no state religion of Christianity. But the country and all of it's supporting documents were framed around Judeo Christian philosophies, NOT Theology like you are trying so hard to say.
"In effect, as Nietzsche argues, the whole concept of a democratic system, a system based on personal equality, is an attempt to deprive the privileged and strong of their right to govern and to create "morality", which is to say good and evil, right and wrong. Because the strong try to (and sometimes do) impose their judgments of value on everyone else, this inherently creates a social order of inequality. Some are privileged due to their "strength" while others are "forced" to meekly follow due to their weakness. On the other hand, under Judeo-Christian morality, or slave morality as Nietzsche calls it, everyone must be afforded the same ability and no one has claim to any special rights or privileges above anyone else, which is the foundation of a democratic society.
Thus in the question of what place does religion have in a free and democratic society, I would agree with Nietzsche in that religion, and the Judeo-Christian tradition in particular, is the foundation of a free, equal and democratic society. And if we as a society reject our Judeo-Christian heritage, we will reject the very thing that gives us our democratic society. We will lose the very foundation for our claim that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that no one should be afforded rights and privileges above, over and apart from all others."
Actually I am getting my information from the source. You are supplying information that is not directly addressing the OP and based on opinion. Reverting back to the OP... The United States of America is not founded on Christianity and therefore, has never been a Christian nation. I think that I will take the words of these guys as gospel. (pardon the pun).
John Adams
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"
It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
Thomas Jefferson
Third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac".
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
James Madison
Fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Ethan Allen
"That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
Benjamin Franklin
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."
He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
Thomas Paine
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.
Actually I am getting my information from the source. You are supplying information that is not directly addressing the OP and based on opinion. Reverting back to the OP... The United States of America is not founded on Christianity and therefore, has never been a Christian nation. I think that I will take the words of these guys as gospe. (pardon the pun).
John Adams
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
Thomas Jefferson
Third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac".
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
James Madison
Fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Ethan Allen
"That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
Benjamin Franklin
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."
He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
Thomas Paine
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.
you have a thick head. You are arguing that we didn't frame this country on a religion itself. It wasn't, it was founded on the PHILOSOPHIES of Judeo Christianity. You can twist this all you want, I don't think you can hold a candle to one of the worlds greatest philosophers.
BTW, it was not opinion, it was pointing out excerpts from Nietzsche's books. You can't even get that right, so I have no confidence in you at all that you actually know what you're talking about. This is getting off topic, so I'm done trying to talk sense to someone without any.
Actually I am getting my information from the source. You are supplying information that is not directly addressing the OP and based on opinion. Reverting back to the OP... The United States of America is not founded on Christianity and therefore, has never been a Christian nation. I think that I will take the words of these guys as gospel. (pardon the pun).
John Adams
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
Thomas Jefferson
Third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac".
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
James Madison
Fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Ethan Allen
"That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
Benjamin Franklin
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."
He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
Thomas Paine
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.
one more thing...Everything you posted there has no bearing at all on what philosophies were used during the framing of this country. It only states certain founder's OPINION of a religious Theocracy.
one more thing...Everything you posted there has no bearing at all on what philosophies were used during the framing of this country. It only states certain founder's OPINION of a religious Theocracy.
You do remember that you came onto this thread midstream and called me a lost and angry person because I stated the fact that "The United States never was a Christian nation." Then when I supply quotes of the Founding Fathers you call me illogical...you're funny.
"Modern Christian civilization is sick and must be overcome."
Freidrich Nietzsche
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