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Old 10-06-2009, 02:29 PM
 
183 posts, read 114,243 times
Reputation: 44

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna7 View Post
I don't think that it is FALSE that some seniors go to the doctor because they are lonely. Let's add to that the fact that some go as their form of recreation. John Stossel did a report on this a while back and a lot of affluent senior citizens did just that - go to the doctor as a form of recreation and socialization. They don't want to give up their Medicare.

The Medicare Ponzi Scheme - really like this part: "The government spends around $6 on seniors for every dollar it spends on children, and yet the poverty rate among children is far higher," said Andrew Biggs of the American Enterprise Institute (Welcome to AEI). The federal government stiffs the young in favor of the old."

What about the ones that say, "We've paid our dues." Money was taken from every paycheck they earned"? Uh, hold on a minute there, Hoss, because the claims that seniors have "paid for it" by paying into the system is a fallacy. The same goes for Social Security while they may've paid into it for 30-40 years the SS tax rate back when the program started was 2% but has now increased to over 12%.

In fact, the average Medicare beneficiary today collects two to three times more money than he paid in.

Here's John Stossel's report including video: Are the Elderly Committing Generational Theft? - ABC News

"Henry Becker, another La Posada resident, believes that Medicare is "one of the best things this country has ever done."

It's no surprise that these elderly residents like Medicare. Everyone likes getting things for free, and Medicare often makes going to the doctor just about free. With medical costs that cheap, some of these elderly residents go all the time.

"That's our social life," Herron joked."

So you're OK with Medicare claims being denied because you feel seniors abuse the system? Why would a single payer not be abused?
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:31 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,008,427 times
Reputation: 6194
"Chevy, we're bigger than US Steel."

just appreciating
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:49 PM
 
183 posts, read 114,243 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
The data is meaningless. The demographics are totally different for Medicare vs private Insurers.
Two different systems that have different rules and regulations governing them.

Without further info this means nothing.
Here's the difference, Medicare gives you an asprin and sends you home to die.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:00 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,271 posts, read 53,999,856 times
Reputation: 40556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy268 View Post
Couldn't think of anything better than that?


Hey, if you like staring at meaningless data.................Knock Yourself Out!
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:02 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,271 posts, read 53,999,856 times
Reputation: 40556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy268 View Post
That is precisely the issue. Seniors are being denied treatment due to their age (see Palin's Death Panels)!


Uh, how does one see a figment of someone else's imagination?
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,735,696 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^^Is there any research to back this up?

I would hate to see the push for universal health care access, which I support, turn into into an "age war".
From what I've seen on tv with people interviewing doctors, many doctors will agree about this and I've also seen seniors on tv own up to this. They see going to the doctor as a social thing, it provides them with something to talk about (complain about) with their friends.

When ABC had a special on about medicare, some of the seniors in a luxury retirement community saw the doctor at least once a week.

There already is an age war, those under 65 have to put up with the bullshie4p68i of insurance companies and have to worry about losing their coverage while those 65 and older already have a single-payer system. We all pay for it but we have to wait until we're older to use it. Currently there are many on Medicare are using more services than they put in. Why not have a single payer system? Employers would pay less for health care for their employees and more people will pay less for health care than what they are paying now.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,088 posts, read 5,330,600 times
Reputation: 1620
All health insurance is rationed. . . it is rationed by ability to pay. . . if you are very wealthy you can get any kind of treatment you want, if you are very poor, you are likely to be eligable for programs that will get you first class medical care for treatable conditions, and good palliative care for non-treatable ones. If you are working or middle class, you had better just stay healthy! Nice system, huh?
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:08 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,210,203 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Not very meaningful without $$$ values of the lines denied.
It would be more helpful if the monetary values were attached but I wouldn't say it's not very meaningful. It does show that Medicare denies more actions than any of the private insurance companies as a percentage of its claims and not total claims. However, I have addressed the weaknesses of jumping to conclusions as well. Read below

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLove08 View Post
You also have to look at how many people Medicare serves and how many people the private insurers serve.
From the look of it, Medicare isn't doing all that shabby.
Your points are fair. Medicare not only covers more people, it covers more people at higher risk. Medicare treats people who are elderly and generally require more intervention and thus it makes sense they would reject more claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
I don't care why seniors go to the doctor (but the idea that "a lot" go because they're lonely is patent nonsense) the fact remains that it is doctors, not the patients, who prescribe care and it is that care recommended by a medical professional that is being denied. Obama is proposing 500 billion dollars in Medicare cuts. So be prepared to see the percentage of denials rise dramatically.
Agreed and unfortunately, many patients are justifiably ignorant about how physicians are compensated. Doctors often make no money from the tests they order. They do it in the best interest of the patient. The doctor doesn't own the imaging center or the lab that does these tests. There are fields in which the doctor profits from performing an interventional treatment. However, there are more than enough unhealthy patients that genuinely require treatment that it makes little sense why a doctor would elect to do an intevention in an otherwise healthy patient. Not only would that increase our risk of liability, it risks the patient's health. This is why I disagree with the President's analogy of doctors electing to do unnecessary procedures just to make money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna7 View Post
Good morning/afternoon, Mr./Mrs. Jones/Honey, how are you today." Listen to a list of aches, pains, and ailments, take weight and blood pressure. Have the doctor come in for a few minutes, take a look at the chart, and schedule an appointment for next week. Diagnosis: You're old. Nothing's changed since last week except you're a week older.
This is partly true. Yes, it's true, there are some patients that insist on seeing you often. Despite physicians telling them there is nothing wrong with them, they want to be seen. They also have a host of questions they want answered that they printed from the internet. It's easy to dismiss these patients but put yourselves in thier shoes. It's not easy being old. They have a lot of questions and issues and they want to be able to see someone they can trust when they need to. It's easy to say this now but you will be old one day and you might feel differently.

Elderly patients are also on many medications. When we make a change to a medication, we have to see how they are doing on it and thus frequent followup is necesary. I can switch a patient to a different blood pressure medication and if he or she becoming orthostatic, I need to directly visualize this and have their vitals done in my office. The majority of the elderly patients we see frequently are due to this. If I didn't followup with the patient and he or she sufferred a complication, I would be legally liable and would have failed to honor my duty as a physician to these patients.

With regards to the OP's post, it's been my experience that Medicare approves outcomes more than private insurance in general. With that said, there are many private insurance companies that are better than Medicare and many doctors try to work exclusively with these private insurers and not take Medicare at all. That's an almost impossible task which is why you will rarely see a doctor refuse to accept Medicare patietns. Also, the worst offenders are other forms of govt healh administration such as Medicaid, the VA systema and the Indian Health Clinic. Supporters of Obama's plan conveniently ignore Medicaid. For example, an allergist was telling me that Medicaid will not longer allow adults to be skin tested but will still allow children to be skin tested.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,735,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy268 View Post
How would that not be far worse?
We can always put something in place to make the co-pay higher for hypochondriacs or lonely people.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,666,705 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy268 View Post
Here's the difference, Medicare gives you an asprin and sends you home to die.
Erroneous information and a meaningless post!

Quote:
Medicare beneficiaries account for about 70% of all U.S. deaths each year.
While only 5% of Medicare patients die each year, the program spends nearly 30% of its annual budget ($143 billion in 2009) on providing care for this population.
Or, to put it another way, Medicare spends an average of $25,000 per patient in his or her last year of life. This amount seems exorbitant, especially when compared to the $4,000 per year spent on enrollees who do not die
.

End-of-Life Care: Treatment Options, Costs, and Difficult Conversations : What If Post (http://whatifpost.com/end-of-life-care-treatment-options-costs-and-difficult-conversations - broken link)
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