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Old 10-08-2009, 10:55 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,058,899 times
Reputation: 6194

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Will the human welfare group grow any when taxpayers and employers get to pay for ? Look ahead beyond the first year of this bill that is not what it should be. Healthcare needs to be improved but this bill is aimed at getting down the road to single payer which will be nothing but socialized medicine. How can that possibly cause better care? Our economy has been tapped out and now we want the government to pay for the whole thing? It is not going to work.
"those who don't have insurance because they don't want it" will pay a fee for the privilege of not having to buy health care; not sure what you're talking about.

What do you think is the purpose of the Health Insurance Exchange?

Give the health insurance companies some credit for ingenuity

Have you seen the commercial by some pro-health insurance reform group, that shows a mansion on a hill, and the voiceover says, "This is [Wilford Brimley]'s house. Wilford is the CEO of [Big Health Insurance Company]. He makes fifty-seven thousand dollars."

(Beat. Beat. Beat.)

"A week."

That's what you're defending, roysold.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:55 AM
 
18,201 posts, read 16,803,371 times
Reputation: 7447
Quote:
Until we have campaign finance reform, these corporate vultures will be enabled to bribe elected officials to vote against the better interests of their constituency.
What kills me is that these congress-critters actually keep a straight face when they say to the cameras that taking the money in no way influenced their vote on the issue. That's like you paying me to murder your business associate, I murder him and then I tell the police that taking your money in no way influenced my decision to murder him. Think the jury would buy that???
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,612 posts, read 26,263,447 times
Reputation: 12633
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Until we have campaign finance reform, these corporate vultures will be enabled to bribe elected officials to vote against the better interests of their constituency. I find it utterly unbelievable that people defend the Corporate Fascists. I posted this thread the other day, but it did not get that much attention...

WellPoint, Inc. Subsidiary Sues State of Maine for Failing to Guarantee Annual Profit Margin of 3%
WellPoint has spent over $10 million* in D.C. fighting the public option as "socialized medicine." Lawsuit calls to question "socialized corporate profits."

WellPoint, Inc. Subsidiary Sues State of Maine for Failing to Guarantee Annual Profit Margin of 3% | CommonDreams.org


Well, I agree with you that campaign finance reform is needed. We have now moved into an area with this push for a public option in which, like the stimulus bill, the ability to use literally trillions of taxpayer dollars for future electioneering efforts is unprecedented.

That the Democrats have so readily embraced whatever reforms the various interests are pleased with should give us some insight to their real intentions for a future public option. Their purpose for creating a public option has nothing to with the quality or availability of health care. It has everything to do with the availability of campaign donations and advocacy ads that support current office holders. We are about to get screwed on a level that has never happened in the history of the republic.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:30 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,765,683 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Well, I agree with you that campaign finance reform is needed. We have now moved into an area with this push for a public option in which, like the stimulus bill, the ability to use literally trillions of taxpayer dollars for future electioneering efforts is unprecedented.

That the Democrats have so readily embraced whatever reforms the various interests are pleased with should give us some insight to their real intentions for a future public option. Their purpose for creating a public option has nothing to with the quality or availability of health care. It has everything to do with the availability of campaign donations and advocacy ads that support current office holders. We are about to get screwed on a level that has never happened in the history of the republic.
What corporate interests are pushing for the public option?

According to the title of this thread, the insurance companies are spending 1.4 million dollars a day to push against the public option. Is there a corporation or industry spending more that 1.4 million dollars a day to push for the public option?
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,612 posts, read 26,263,447 times
Reputation: 12633
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
What corporate interests are pushing for the public option?

According to the title of this thread, the insurance companies are spending 1.4 million dollars a day to push against the public option. Is there a corporation or industry spending more that 1.4 million dollars a day to push for the public option?
PhRMA, the lobbying arm of the pharmaceutical industry, earlier this year announced that it would be setting aside $150 million to pay for an ad campaign supporting the President’s health care bill.

EconomicPolicyJournal.com: On Those Dumb Pro ObamaCare Commercials

The unwelcome scrutiny, largely from Republicans, comes at an inopportune time as Obama seeks to shore up support for health care reform. It revolves around two separate $12 million ad campaigns advocating Obama’s health care plan that were produced and placed partly by AKPD Message and Media, a firm founded by Axelrod that employs his son and still owes Axelrod $2 million.

Pharma, AMA Front Groups Making Huge Health Care Reform Ad Buys Through Axelrod's Old PR Firm | ProsperityAgenda.US (http://www.prosperityagenda.us/node/1373 - broken link)

the Federation of American Hospitals joined in a $12 million advertising campaign to support the goals of the Obama Administration, a new group called Americans for Stable Quality Care, which includes such diverse coalition partners as the AMA, Families USA, PhRMA and SEIU, the service employees’ union.

THE CORPORATE “ALLIANCE†FOR HEALTH CARE REFORM: III. THE HOSPITAL INDUSTRY | Guaranteed Healthcare
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:43 PM
 
27,625 posts, read 21,051,257 times
Reputation: 11092
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Well, I agree with you that campaign finance reform is needed. We have now moved into an area with this push for a public option in which, like the stimulus bill, the ability to use literally trillions of taxpayer dollars for future electioneering efforts is unprecedented.

That the Democrats have so readily embraced whatever reforms the various interests are pleased with should give us some insight to their real intentions for a future public option. Their purpose for creating a public option has nothing to with the quality or availability of health care. It has everything to do with the availability of campaign donations and advocacy ads that support current office holders. We are about to get screwed on a level that has never happened in the history of the republic.
This is ridiculous and I suggest that you stop absorbing the rhetoric and lies. We found the money for an illegal war and we will find the funds for this. The system is broken and without a public option we are in deeper manure.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:05 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 3,723,642 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Great post - why dont people see?

This is old, but still relevant -- as long as we never learn.

Great eye-opening chart here; Im sure there's a modern update somewhere - same game, different names.
If a mutual fund returns 20% a year, that's considered unbelievably good. But in the low-risk, high return world of legislation, a 20% return is positively lousy. Why, there's no reason why your investment dollar can't return 60,000, 70,000, even 80,000%!

Here's how it works: With the help of a professional legislation broker (called a Lobbyist), you place your investment (called a Campaign Contribution) with a carefully selected list of legislation manufacturers (called Members of Congress). These manufacturers then go to work writing legislation: crafting industry-specific subsidies, inserting tax breaks into the tax code, extending patents, or giving away public property for free. In an assembly-line process that would make Henry Ford proud, the legislation is produced, and you (and your favorite industry) reap the benefits!
Billionaires For Bush: Legislation: A Lucrative Investment

also from there, still old but still relevant: Billionaires For Bush: Our Investment: Why We Love George
Case in point: Senators Chris Dodd (D) and Kent Conrad (D) getting sweetheart mortgage deals from Countrywide.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:32 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,058,899 times
Reputation: 6194
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Case in point: Senators Chris Dodd (D) and Kent Conrad (D) getting sweetheart mortgage deals from Countrywide.
Yes - Michael Moore points that and them out too, in that Capitalism movie. Check out tthat "Legislation - A Good Investment" link in the post you replied to -- they're old, from the Bush era, but they apply now too, just with different names.
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:11 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,157,625 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Even though this op ed was published before the CBO report of yesterday I see a bias in the mind of the writer and I doubt he will accept much of what the CBO reported yesterday, although Dems have been very happy with the number of $829 billion for ten years as what the cost would be from 2013 to 2023. Why the money taken from Medicare will nearly pay for that so taxes won't have to go up, much. I guess the promise about taxes was only for next year, huh?
What on God's green earth did you entire post have to do with 1.4 million a day spent by lobbyist on behalf of the insurance industry? What on God's green earth does the CBO have to do with this discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
It isn't about health care, and it never has been.

The current debate that has been taken over by front groups for various special interests like Pharma, unions, AMA, AARP and the hospital industry that have lobbied and bought off our government to create health care reform that suits their fancy. They have happily contributed millions upon millions of ad dollars to their Democrat partners in crime to get the reforms passed. Democrats know that only a public option will lead to the access to our paychecks they desire. With that unprecedented ability to seize our assets, they will be able to divert premiums, taxes and penalties associated with the program to future electioneering efforts. The new program will be severely underfunded justifying even higher taxes, premiums and fines in an endless cycle of confiscation, diversion and manipulation.
You claim it has nothing to do with health care then go on a verbose post about all the aspects of health care special interests and conveniently leave out the insurance industry while pointing out every other industry and then say it has nothing to do with health care?

The lack of continuity in these two posts with the actual OP leaves one scratching their head to say the least.


Let me see if I can be more clear. Lobbyist are spending 1.4 million a day to lobby on behalf of the insurance/health care industry. An example was given from a previous tea party protest where it is pointed out the disparity of monies being used to fight this issue.

This isn't about left and right people, this is about people fighting the deep pockets of lobbyist.
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,781 posts, read 2,673,959 times
Reputation: 7071
Exclamation Roys, You've Done It Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
OMG, I have to agree with a left leaner. Good post, even if it causes me pain to agree with you.
You just got a rep point from me...I know we don't always see eye to eye, but I will recognize an effort like this
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