Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Statistics are not racist. Young black males make up a very small percentage of the population. Young black males commit over 50% of the crime in the USA. My post shares an example (one of many I personally have had) of an encounter with angry, menacing young black males. I ask "why"? Predictably, I'm labeled a racist. It may make you feel good to attack me, but it changes nothing. It doesn't change the statistics. It doesn't change the facts on the ground. It doesn't change anyone's opinions. Truthfully, most of the defensive and attacking posters here are just exactly like Jesse Jackson, who, if they were honest, would say they feel relieved to look behind them on a dark night and see that the footsteps they hear are coming from a white man and not a black man.
Because you attribute it to race. Not to other factors that are more likely to cause such a behavior. Also, the post involved a prank that could really didn't deserve such a race based reaction. That's why. This sort of thing is VERY common among White teens. Most of my friends are White. I grew up in a White neighborhood. Half of me is White. I know that what happened ruined your night. For that, that really sucks. However, again, the specifics what occurred is just teens being jackasses.
On a larger level, we see that stats also provide a better correlation to income/employment and crime. Not race. So that's why the post itself is racist. Not taking into consideration better indicators of crime (age, income, unemployment levels, etc.)
Be honest. It's the first step toward cooperative solutions.
While all races have their criminal element, and their life choices that are destructive (teen pregnancy, drug use, broken families, etc), the black community is far more frequently affected by these things and far less resilient in bouncing back.
Again, look at the history. Acquired wealth is a HUGE reason why the Black community is lagging. A few hundred years of not gaining wealth (or very little) will significantly alter your community economically. They are the only community in the US to have gone through that. Now we neglect the poor in general, regardless of race. So if you look at White communities of the same economic class and compare them to Black communities of the same economic class, you will seen the same behaviors (lower class Whites have HIGH rates of teen pregnancy, meth use, and divorce rates...ect. Middle class Blacks have low rates of teen pregnance, drug use, etc.). It's not race specific.
Posters here have invited me to go visit Stormfront. That is not who I am, though I don't bother to dignify those posts with comment because honestly, I really don't care anymore what those kind of "haters" think. They need to believe I'm the enemy because it fits into their world view. I appreciate your giving me at least the possibility that I could be a nice person -- thanks for that. So I'm going the extra mile to explain to you. I don't hate all blacks or think they are all criminals, but I DO think that as a group, they are plagued by an inordinate number of problems and they are deliberately making choices that are reinforcing racist stereotypes. They are their own worst enemy, in other words. Generalizations and stereotypes will continue as long as a significant portion of a population continues to do the behavior that gets them stereotyped and generalized about in the first place (again, small percentage of black males in the population who create large percentage of total crime - that is shocking, attention-getting, and worthy of being discussed). It's really as simple as that. Angry and defensive blacks can browbeat the White Cracker all they want, but impressions of black people will not change until black people change. It is further damaging when blacks who do not fit these negative stereotypes defend and champion the ones who do, or worse, deny that any problems exist, or that "black problems" are no different from the problems of other races. That is just simply not true, and it's glaringly obvious (to everyone, actually, which makes the denials just so bizarre to me.)
Which leads to the previous post I posted concerning much of this. Again, I don't know you personally. So I'm not going as far as to say that you are racist. In fact, you hold a sentiment that displays a lack of understanding concerning this complex situation. Which is okay. I suck at physics, and hence don't go and debate the number of "strings" in string theory. These problems are not simply "Black problems" I feel that it is more damaging that people frame the issue in such concretes without taking into consideration everything. Read my previous post which explains A LOT.
There is also the issue of black racism, which is what was at play in my unfortunate encounter the other night. I doubt seriously if these kids would have shouted those obscenities to a middle aged black married couple. What do you think? Black racism never gets discussed seriously on any level in our society, whether by city data posters or college professors or the Atty General.
Yes there are Black racists. No it is not "reverse" racism. Yes these kids would shout them to middle aged black married couples. They are kids. You need to realize the obvious (concerning the situation only). They are male teens that like to shock and awe. This is common across all races. My white fraternity buddy did the EXACT same thing to a married White couple. These things happen...
Again, look at the history. Acquired wealth is a HUGE reason why the Black community is lagging. A few hundred years of not gaining wealth (or very little) will significantly alter your community economically. They are the only community in the US to have gone through that. Now we neglect the poor in general, regardless of race. So if you look at White communities of the same economic class and compare them to Black communities of the same economic class, you will seen the same behaviors (lower class Whites have HIGH rates of teen pregnancy, meth use, and divorce rates...ect. Middle class Blacks have low rates of teen pregnance, drug use, etc.). It's not race specific.
Yes there are Black racists. No it is not "reverse" racism. Yes these kids would shout them to middle aged black married couples. They are kids. You need to realize the obvious (concerning the situation only). They are male teens that like to shock and awe. This is common across all races. My white fraternity buddy did the EXACT same thing to a married White couple. These things happen...
Okay, I'm listening, but I want to say a couple of things. One, you are characterizing this event as a bunch of kids with nothing better to do than try to get attention from passers by. You might be totally right about that. However, given that young "any race" criminal minded males, can and do commit really heinous crimes against people that often start out as a street confrontation, how can I possibly just put it down to something benign? It is just as likely that those kids would have stepped into our path and demanded our wallets. In fact, after we had gotten some distance, we saw two white Jewish teens (with skullcaps on) walking down the street past them and we stopped to watch to make sure they would be okay. My husband told me "if anything happens, I'm going to run down there to help, and you run as fast as you can to our friend's house and call for help." The two Jewish teens passed without incident but we noticed one of the black thuglets starting to follow them a few yards before he changed his mind and returned to his friends under the bus shelter. Apparently his "whimsy" went one direction at that moment, but what if it had gone in another? So I can't just shrug this off as "kids!" I think these thugs really had something more nefarious on their minds.
Secondly, I do see income level always brought into the discussion about criminality and specifically problems in minority communities. I don't believe in this cause-effect relationship at all, given that I grew up very poor and we were not criminals, given that I knew many poor people who were religious (both Jewish and Christian as I have both in my family) who struggled badly and did not resort to crime or prostitution or drug use. Yes I know that statistically there is a correlation between economic status and crime -- but no one can prove a cause/effect relationship there. I see many poor people leading respectable lives and I do get very defensive of them when this subject comes up because it's always as if there is some expectation that if you are poor, you are probably going to be a criminal, too. How is that not stereotyping the poor? Generalizing about the poor? Perhaps criminals are poor because the lack of moral character that can lead one to hurt others is the same as can lead one not to work at all (as opposed to the working poor, who are not morally flawed by laziness but who are simply struggling to stay ahead and maintain their dignity). I am reluctant to accept that good people become criminals when they fall on hard times. Anyone who would turn to criminal behavior as a result of economic hardship is someone who lacked the moral character to live rightly from the beginning. The only way to improve one's financial standing is to work diligently, spend wisely, delay creating a family, and get an education or job training that will increase your earning power.
I do not see victims here, but I do see a lot of people who have received training in how to play a victim. There have been too many stories of people overcoming financial stress and becoming better people in the process for me to believe it is not possible. It simply does not compute that this is a reason or an excuse for criminal behavior. I know it is a deeply entrenched liberal belief but it is wrong, and the sooner we stop sending that message directly into the inner city, the better!!
Lastly of course I agree with you that middle class and upper class blacks do not have these issues so much (well, there's Michael Vick, unfortunately, so I have to exclude black athletes and black rappers). Generally, those who were born middle/upper class or who EARNED their way there through education or hard work or smart thinking (rather than through some random physical gift like being able to shoot a basket which enabled them to catapult overnight from the ghetto to lifestyles of the rich and famous) are going to have better values and lead better lives. To some extent it's a class issue but given that more blacks fall into the lower classes, race still applies.
Last edited by chattypatty; 10-12-2009 at 05:32 PM..
Okay, I'm listening, but I want to say a couple of things. One, you are characterizing this event as a bunch of kids with nothing better to do than try to get attention from passers by. You might be totally right about that. However, given that young "any race" criminal minded males, can and do commit really heinous crimes against people that often start out as a street confrontation, how can I possibly just put it down to something benign? It is just as likely that those kids would have stepped into our path and demanded our wallets. In fact, after we had gotten some distance, we saw two white Jewish teens (with skullcaps on) walking down the street past them and we stopped to watch to make sure they would be okay. My husband told me "if anything happens, I'm going to run down there to help, and you run as fast as you can to our friend's house and call for help." The two Jewish teens passed without incident but we noticed one of the black thuglets starting to follow them a few yards before he changed his mind and returned to his friends under the bus shelter. Apparently his "whimsy" went one direction at that moment, but what if it had gone in another? So I can't just shrug this off as "kids!" I think these thugs really had something more nefarious on their minds.
Secondly, I do see income level always brought into the discussion about criminality and specifically problems in minority communities. I don't believe in this cause-effect relationship at all, given that I grew up very poor and we were not criminals, given that I knew many poor people who were religious (both Jewish and Christian as I have both in my family) who struggled badly and did not resort to crime or prostitution or drug use. Yes I know that statistically there is a correlation between economic status and crime -- but no one can prove a cause/effect relationship there. I see many poor people leading respectable lives and I do get very defensive of them when this subject comes up because it's always as if there is some expectation that if you are poor, you are probably going to be a criminal, too. How is that not stereotyping the poor? Generalizing about the poor? Perhaps criminals are poor because the lack of moral character that can lead one to hurt others is the same as can lead one not to work at all (as opposed to the working poor, who are not morally flawed by laziness but who are simply struggling to stay ahead and maintain their dignity). I am reluctant to accept that good people become criminals when they fall on hard times. Anyone who would turn to criminal behavior as a result of economic hardship is someone who lacked the moral character to live rightly from the beginning. The only way to improve one's financial standing is to work diligently, spend wisely, delay creating a family, and get an education or job training that will increase your earning power.
I do not see victims here, but I do see a lot of people who have received training in how to play a victim. There have been too many stories of people overcoming financial stress and becoming better people in the process for me to believe it is not possible. It simply does not compute that this is a reason or an excuse for criminal behavior. I know it is a deeply entrenched liberal belief but it is wrong, and the sooner we stop sending that message directly into the inner city, the better!!
Lastly of course I agree with you that middle class and upper class blacks do not have these issues so much (well, there's Michael Vick, unfortunately, so I have to exclude black athletes and black rappers). Generally, those who were born middle/upper class or who EARNED their way there through education or hard work or smart thinking (rather than through some random physical gift like being able to shoot a basket which enabled them to catapult overnight from the ghetto to lifestyles of the rich and famous) are going to have better values and lead better lives. To some extent it's a class issue but given that more blacks fall into the lower classes, race still applies.
You don't have to go on so long just to say what you are.
Lots of wisdom in this post. It's not gangsta rap culture that is causing this, however. America's violent black teens (and those of all races) are a product of American history and cultures.
What on earth are you talking about?
It's not a product of America's history. Blacks in France, the U.K, and in countries they comprise a majority (such as South Africa) participate in incredibly disproportional amounts of violent crime.
For example, the U.K they even had an ad campaign targeting Black communities because of the amount of violent crime w/guns and weapons done by Blacks.
Hell, a news report recently a group of Liberian refugees came to the U.S. A group of boys (age 12) raped another refugee girl (age 8). I'm sure it's "America's History" which is at fault here.
You can't blame it on America's "history" when Blacks in every country they are in, minority or majority, are responsible for such a disproportional amount of violent crimes such as rape or murder. It gets to the point where people need to realize the entire myth of "we are all equal" is NOT true.
When the 13% Black population commits over half the murder, how many other people can you blame it on? How many more people need to die so we can make more excuses for the Black population?
13% Black population commits 52% of all homicide:
Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Trends by race (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm - broken link)
Okay, I'm listening, but I want to say a couple of things. One, you are characterizing this event as a bunch of kids with nothing better to do than try to get attention from passers by. You might be totally right about that. However, given that young "any race" criminal minded males, can and do commit really heinous crimes against people that often start out as a street confrontation, how can I possibly just put it down to something benign? It is just as likely that those kids would have stepped into our path and demanded our wallets. In fact, after we had gotten some distance, we saw two white Jewish teens (with skullcaps on) walking down the street past them and we stopped to watch to make sure they would be okay. My husband told me "if anything happens, I'm going to run down there to help, and you run as fast as you can to our friend's house and call for help." The two Jewish teens passed without incident but we noticed one of the black thuglets starting to follow them a few yards before he changed his mind and returned to his friends under the bus shelter. Apparently his "whimsy" went one direction at that moment, but what if it had gone in another? So I can't just shrug this off as "kids!" I think these thugs really had something more nefarious on their minds.
Again you were stereotyping. You have no idea why he went in those directions. These are unknowns that need not be correlated to race. Yeah, you can just shrug it off as "kids!"
Secondly, I do see income level always brought into the discussion about criminality and specifically problems in minority communities. I don't believe in this cause-effect relationship at all, given that I grew up very poor and we were not criminals, given that I knew many poor people who were religious (both Jewish and Christian as I have both in my family) who struggled badly and did not resort to crime or prostitution or drug use. Yes I know that statistically there is a correlation between economic status and crime -- but no one can prove a cause/effect relationship there. I see many poor people leading respectable lives and I do get very defensive of them when this subject comes up because it's always as if there is some expectation that if you are poor, you are probably going to be a criminal, too. How is that not stereotyping the poor? Generalizing about the poor? Perhaps criminals are poor because the lack of moral character that can lead one to hurt others is the same as can lead one not to work at all (as opposed to the working poor, who are not morally flawed by laziness but who are simply struggling to stay ahead and maintain their dignity). I am reluctant to accept that good people become criminals when they fall on hard times. Anyone who would turn to criminal behavior as a result of economic hardship is someone who lacked the moral character to live rightly from the beginning. The only way to improve one's financial standing is to work diligently, spend wisely, delay creating a family, and get an education or job training that will increase your earning power.
Well, we know that poorer communities lack resources, and thus lack opportunities. Again it goes back to what I was saying about surviving in your environment. I know you are reluctant to accept "good" people can commit crimes. However, survival is survival. For the purpose of conversation, crime does occur in richer areas. However, communities that have the lowest crime rates are also the richest communities. A lack of resources does prevent people from getting ahead. The majority of people stay within their socio-economic class that they were born into.
I do not see victims here, but I do see a lot of people who have received training in how to play a victim. There have been too many stories of people overcoming financial stress and becoming better people in the process for me to believe it is not possible. It simply does not compute that this is a reason or an excuse for criminal behavior. I know it is a deeply entrenched liberal belief but it is wrong, and the sooner we stop sending that message directly into the inner city, the better!!
Again, the majority of people do not change classes. Policies can't be made based solely on these exceptions. It's not a "deeply entrenched liberal belief" that poverty and crime are linked. In fact many conservatives feel this way as well. The sooner we actually help the inner city, the sooner that crime can be reduced in this area. There will always be crime, however, we can reduce it significantly.
Lastly of course I agree with you that middle class and upper class blacks do not have these issues so much (well, there's Michael Vick, unfortunately, so I have to exclude black athletes and black rappers). Generally, those who were born middle/upper class or who EARNED their way there through education or hard work or smart thinking (rather than through some random physical gift like being able to shoot a basket which enabled them to catapult overnight from the ghetto to lifestyles of the rich and famous) are going to have better values and lead better lives. To some extent it's a class issue but given that more blacks fall into the lower classes, race still applies.
Not all black athletes or rappers. Also, those that made it to the top of their fields (rapping, sports, or acting) beat out MANY people. They worked VERY hard. Again there is no correlation between race and crime. If this were true, then the VAST majority of Black people would be in jail or prison. We know that defunding from the inner city as well as poor services contribute to the perpetual cycle of crime which is linked to the perpetual cycle of poverty. Generally, those born poor, die poor...those born rich, die rich.
It's not a product of America's history. Blacks in France, the U.K, and in countries they comprise a majority (such as South Africa) participate in incredibly disproportional amounts of violent crime.
For example, the U.K they even had an ad campaign targeting Black communities because of the amount of violent crime w/guns and weapons done by Blacks.
Hell, a news report recently a group of Liberian refugees came to the U.S. A group of boys (age 12) raped another refugee girl (age 8). I'm sure it's "America's History" which is at fault here.
You can't blame it on America's "history" when Blacks in every country they are in, minority or majority, are responsible for such a disproportional amount of violent crimes such as rape or murder. It gets to the point where people need to realize the entire myth of "we are all equal" is NOT true.
When the 13% Black population commits over half the murder, how many other people can you blame it on? How many more people need to die so we can make more excuses for the Black population?
Black crime is the reason I got my CCW and a gun.
I don't even know where to begin on the depths of historical ignorance and blatant racism.
So I will only say I hope that your online persona is a joke and that you don't truly act the way you do...
Hell, a news report recently a group of Liberian refugees came to the U.S. A group of boys (age 12) raped another refugee girl (age 8). I'm sure it's "America's History" which is at fault here.
Know much about the history of Liberia?
Quote:
You can't blame it on America's "history" when Blacks in every country they are in, minority or majority, are responsible for such a disproportional amount of violent crimes such as rape or murder. It gets to the point where people need to realize the entire myth of "we are all equal" is NOT true.
If we're not equal, what is true? Are blacks inferior?
Quote:
When the 13% Black population commits over half the murder, how many other people can you blame it on? How many more people need to die so we can make more excuses for the Black population?
Black crime is the reason I got my CCW and a gun.
I guess I need to do the same, actually, since I'm such a threat..............Remind me never to show up in your neighborhood, which is full of superior white people.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
