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Old 04-01-2012, 12:22 PM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,929,147 times
Reputation: 1119

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Please stop this disinformation campaign. There are no "adjuvants" including alum or squalene in swine flu vaccine. Squalene, in any event is a naturally occuring substance also made by the body and present in many health "supplements", which a lot of anti-immunization people take. I have posted links about this before; do a search. Thimerosol (mercury) free vaccine is available, and in any event, the amount in one dose is not harmful. The reason thimerosol was taken out of childhood vaccines was that babies get a lot of vaccines in the space of 18-24 months.

What You Need To Know About Swine Flu Vaccine : NPR



You notice no doctor backed up her conention. This is a commn ploy of the anti-immunization people. They get testimonials, none of which are research based or even empiracally validated by a physician.
They are vaccines not immunization. Big difference. Squalene, in itself isn't the issue.

Ultimately, you are trusting a lab, which have made some "serious errors" and many people are not given full disclosure.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,694,120 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
They are vaccines not immunization. Big difference. Squalene, in itself isn't the issue.

Ultimately, you are trusting a lab, which have made some "serious errors" and many people are not given full disclosure.
There is no freaking difference at all, let alone a "big one". It's simply a difference in terms. Vaccine is actually more accurate, b/c immunization implies that the patient becomes immune. In a small amount of cases, that is not true. It is also possible to be immunized with something other than vaccine, e.g. natural disease. Don't discount the defintion below b/c it's from wiki. It was the best explanation I could find on the web.

Vaccination - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ETA: I did discover, when looking for these defintions, that the anti-immunization people are claiming this "big difference" between vaccines and immunizations. And heck, what is the issue then? The anti-immunization folks are always moving the goalposts.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:38 PM
 
7,006 posts, read 6,991,168 times
Reputation: 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
This is a very good article entitled: "Does the Vaccine Matter? Its a very good article and should be read by anyone/everyone who is anticipating getting a flu vaccine shot this year.

Does the Vaccine Matter? - The Atlantic (November 2009)
My 98 year old great grandfather gets a flu shot every year and without fail he always ends up getting sick one week after. I worry that one day he'll get the shot and it will kill him.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,694,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renault View Post
My 98 year old great grandfather gets a flu shot every year and I always worry that one day it will kill him.
It's more likely the flu will kill him if he doesn't get the shot. We are still seeing flu cases (as of Friday) at our office, virtually all from people who did not get the vaccine.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:49 PM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,929,147 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There is no freaking difference at all, let alone a "big one". It's simply a difference in terms. Vaccine is actually more accurate, b/c immunization implies that the patient becomes immune. In a small amount of cases, that is not true. It is also possible to be immunized with something other than vaccine, e.g. natural disease. Don't discount the defintion below b/c it's from wiki. It was the best explanation I could find on the web.

Vaccination - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ETA: I did discover, when looking for these defintions, that the anti-immunization people are claiming this "big difference" between vaccines and immunizations. And heck, what is the issue then? The anti-immunization folks are always moving the goalposts.
The immune system is quite complex. The idea behind vaccines is based on a very simple premise observed as part of that system. To call it immunity or immunization is inaccurate and misleading. Maybe this article can shed a bit of light for you. Certainly it has a bias (as everyone has), but the difference in terms should be very clear to anyone.

WeeksMD » A primer on vaccination vs. immunization
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,694,120 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
The immune system is quite complex. The idea behind vaccines is based on a very simple premise observed as part of that system. To call it immunity or immunization is inaccurate and misleading. Maybe this article can shed a bit of light for you. Certainly it has a bias (as everyone has), but the difference in terms should be very clear to anyone.

WeeksMD » A primer on vaccination vs. immunization
LOL! "Alternative Medicine Digest"!

Hyperbolic language; out and out lies such as this one:


Comparing these dates to the mortality rates above, it it obvious that diphtheria, pertussis, influenza, etc., were on their way out long before their respective vaccines were introduced on a mass scale.

Salk Polio Vaccine Conquered Terrifying Disease : NPR
1952 The United States reports 57,628 polio cases — the worst U.S. epidemic on record.


Even this anti-immunization rag states that in 1951, the year your guy says there were 3800 cases, there were "less than 28,000 cases".

THE POLIO VACCINE MYTH by Christopher Kent, D.C., FCCI

There was a pertussis epidemic just a few years ago in California. There was the H1N1 flu epidemic of 2009-10; an epidemic of diphtheria in the Russian Federation in 1990-93.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:36 PM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,929,147 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
LOL! "Alternative Medicine Digest"!

Hyperbolic language; out and out lies such as this one:


Comparing these dates to the mortality rates above, it it obvious that diphtheria, pertussis, influenza, etc., were on their way out long before their respective vaccines were introduced on a mass scale.

Salk Polio Vaccine Conquered Terrifying Disease : NPR
1952 The United States reports 57,628 polio cases — the worst U.S. epidemic on record.


Even this anti-immunization rag states that in 1951, the year your guy says there were 3800 cases, there were "less than 28,000 cases".

THE POLIO VACCINE MYTH by Christopher Kent, D.C., FCCI

There was a pertussis epidemic just a few years ago in California. There was the H1N1 flu epidemic of 2009-10; an epidemic of diphtheria in the Russian Federation in 1990-93.
Not sure why the name is funny to you. He is not "my guy". I simply posted that because it briefly explains the difference between immunity and vaccine which you seem to not understand.

I am not sure where the information came from on the stats in the article, but I wouldn't presume they are "lies". As to the accuracy I cannot attest, however, that wasn't why I posted the article so not of concern. It does reference this. So maybe that is where the info came from. The article is from 2009.

From the article.

Undeserved credit

Medical statistician Michael Alderson, author of several classic research texts, has shown how infectious diseases had sharply declined before mass vaccination ever came upon the scene. Many researchers feel from looking at the data that infectious diseases would have largely disappeared without any vaccines, due to improvements in sanitation and hygiene before mass inoculations took place.
Australian medical researcher Viera Scheibner, Ph.D., summarized her investigation of some 30,000 pages of medical literature on vaccination in “Sudden Infant Death Syndrome,” a 1999 letter to Congress: “Immunizations, including those practiced on babies, not only did not prevent any infectious diseases, they caused more suffering and more deaths than has any other human activity in the entire history of medical intervention. It will be decades before the mopping-up after the disasters caused by childhood vaccination will be completed. All vaccinations should cease forthwith, and all victims of their side effects should be appropriately compensated.”
We Didn’t Need to be Rescued This table show how dieseases have on their own during this century. The numbers indicate the approximate year that mass vaccinations were introduced.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:39 PM
 
4,042 posts, read 3,527,793 times
Reputation: 1968
I am in my mid-to-late fifties and have never had a flu shot in my life.

I will never be allowing a flu shot into my body.

Yes, mine is a decision of wisdom, born of over 30yrs. of research, of following the harm that shots have done, and the FAILURES Of the shots way, too often.

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Old 04-01-2012, 04:39 PM
 
Location: West Egg
2,160 posts, read 1,954,197 times
Reputation: 1297
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Here's a woman who regrets taking the shot...

25-year-old can barely walk or talk just two months after being vaccinated

Woman Blames Paralyzing Neurological Disease On Flu Shot
That's right up there with Michelle Bachmann's "Well, this mother told me how the HPV vaccine made her daughter mentally retarded" story...
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:42 PM
 
4,042 posts, read 3,527,793 times
Reputation: 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by renault View Post
My 98 year old great grandfather gets a flu shot every year and without fail he always ends up getting sick one week after. I worry that one day he'll get the shot and it will kill him.
Our soldier son-in-law is forced to accept the flu shot, well was....thank God he'll be a civilian in a few months.

HE ALWAYS gets at least the "not coincidental" sniffles, heavily to some years getting SICK soon after the shot.

They claim the shot can't make folks sick.
They lie~

Some folks it can, and some folks it apparently can't.
Something about "survival of the fittest."

I've heard reports ad naseum over my lifetime of folks feeling really bad, to getting sick with the flu shot.
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