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Two replies, both with quotes, and neither of you can provide evidence to back up the accusation...
Do you even read the stuff you post? Or do you just copy/paste it from hate websites?
In the months leading up to the start of the war, I never, ever got the impression that Bush was trying to connect Iraq with 9/11, and I was watching the situation intensely.
Now before you go off on some idiotic rant, you should probably also know that I'm also not a Republican, nor did I ever vote for anyone with the last name "Bush", so you can take whatever assumptions you had about me being a Bush supporter/voter and recycle them into something more useful...
Cheney Is Adamant on Iraq 'Evidence'
Published on Friday, January 23, 2003 by the Los Angeles Times
Vice president revives assertions on banned weaponry and links to Al Qaeda that other administration officials have backed away from
WASHINGTON — Vice President Dick Cheney revived two controversial assertions about the war in Iraq on Thursday, declaring there was "overwhelming evidence" that Saddam Hussein had a relationship with Al Qaeda and that two trailers discovered after the war were proof of Iraq's biological weapons programs.
Claims and Facts: Rhetoric, Reality and the War in Iraq
CLAIM: We have never claimed that Saddam Hussein ... had either direction or control of 9/11. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, 9/16/03
FACT: President Bush sent a letter to Congress on 3/19/03 saying that the Iraq war was permitted specifically under legislation that authorized force against nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001
YES, a very interesting video. A lot of things about that day don't add up. BUT I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that the administration knew about it before, or that anyone knew beforehand. But some of the "facts" just don't make sense to me. I don't think we will ever really know.
That's why a comprehensive investigation is required and not a whitewash like the 9/11 commission. I don't really understand many of us in western society who cannot grasp that government is capable of heinous acts to achieve its own goals. I think we're too insulated from what actually has gone on in the world. Look up such administrations as Idi Amin's, Mao Tse-Tung's, Adolf Hitler's, the military junta in Chile in the 70s, etc.
Try looking up Operation Northwoods to see what the U.S. government (or indeed, any government) is capable of. That sure isn't fantasy. Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's why a comprehensive investigation is required and not a whitewash like the 9/11 commission. I don't really understand many of us in western society who cannot grasp that government is capable of heinous acts to achieve its own goals. I think we're too insulated from what actually has gone on in the world. Look up such administrations as Idi Amin's, Mao Tse-Tung's, Adolf Hitler's, the military junta in Chile in the 70s, etc.
Try looking up Operation Northwoods to see what the U.S. government (or indeed, any government) is capable of. That sure isn't fantasy. Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They will never admit it out of fear...I suppose.
"There are none. so blind as those. who will not see"
There are lots of people who live for this sinister-conspiracy-everyone-is-evil-and-out-to-screw-normal-people-like-me-and-they-are-masters-at-covering-it-up tripe.
How else do you think people like Obama, Pelosi, and Reid get elected?
So true what you say, but this sinister creep makes us sinister for watching that crap. And i mean crap.
I’ve been following this thread for a while. Come on people. What’s with all the straw man psuedo-arguments and ad hominem beat downs? The perpetrators span both sides of the issue:
If you don’t believe the Truthers than you are a brainwashed sheep on your way to the slaughterhouse. If you don’t believe the official story than you are a bat **** crazy moron gone off of your meds.
What is this High School? Meet me in the parking lot at 3:15 for an ass whoopin’. You better be there *****! Really, this is seriously juvenile madness that just goes round and round ad nauseam. The problem is that neither argument can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. There is quite a bit of ambiguity and many questions that cannot be definitively answered.
As I watched the events of that horrible day unfold I was dumbstruck. When the buildings began to crumble something just didn’t look right, especially building 7. I had a strange feeling in my gut. Many of the Police and Fireman first responders heard secondary explosions, but who knows for sure? This was an unprecedented event. Never before have jumbo jets been flown into buildings. Maybe it did cause enough damage to bring the towers down. Maybe there was enough structural damage inflicted to building 7 to cause its eventual collapse. I just don’t know.
I think a 757 really did hit the Pentagon. There were just too many everyday people like you and me who saw it. They can’t all be mistaken or intentionally lying as part of a cover up. I do however believe that UAL flight 93 was most likely shot down over Shanksville because of the large debris field said to span 7 or 8 miles, but so what? Given the foreknowledge of the ultimate intentions of the previous hijackings this is exactly what should have happened.
For conspiracy believers I think you are all concentrating your focus and energy in the wrong places. To me the most damning evidence lies in all the war games that were taking place on that very day. The majority of the fighter interceptors that would normally be there to protect the Northeast were on training exercises in Canada and Alaska. There was also an exercise concerning a plane into building scenario. Norad and the FAA were conducting a joint exercise involving live flight aircraft mimicking the behavior of hijacked airplanes. They turned off their transponders and became only unidentifiable blips on a radar screen. When the hijackers then turned off their transponders there was no way to tell friend from foe, real world from exercise. All of these “coincidences†came together to produce the necessary “Fog of War†or confusion needed to pull something like this off.
The conspiracy deniers or debunkers often claim that there would have to be hundreds if not thousands of conspirators involved. They don’t know how compartmentalized the military and intelligence agencies are. I know, I had a high-level security clearance in the Army. Most of the time the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. The vast majority of the military men involved in the above scenarios didn’t have to know squat. There was no necessary media complicity. All it would take is a handful (maybe a couple dozen) of high level, highly skilled, and highly Machiavellian men to pull this off. All they had to do is set it up and watch it happen. And these kinds of people know how to keep secrets.
The London subway bombings are also highly suspect for the same reasons. British police and security forces were conducting an exercise concerning a terrorist plot to blow up subway trains and again, in the middle of the exercise this is exactly what happened and in the same exact stations where the exercises were taking place providing the necessary cover and confusion. This incident was used to justify and implement legislation that further eroded the personal rights and civil liberties of UK citizens in much the same way that The Homeland Security and Patriot Acts have curtailed ours.
There is an interesting phenomenon dealing with the human mind and how it handles challenges to its belief system. Basically, any idea or information incongruent with an individual’s core beliefs will usually be rejected especially if it threatens the very foundation those beliefs are built upon. Everybody is subject to this filtering process including me. I don’t think that I’m special.
Do I believe the 9/11 inside job theory? Not necessarily, but my worldview allows for the possibility.
I’ve been following this thread for a while. Come on people. What’s with all the straw man psuedo-arguments and ad hominem beat downs? The perpetrators span both sides of the issue:
If you don’t believe the Truthers than you are a brainwashed sheep on your way to the slaughterhouse. If you don’t believe the official story than you are a bat **** crazy moron gone off of your meds.
What is this High School? Meet me in the parking lot at 3:15 for an ass whoopin’. You better be there *****! Really, this is seriously juvenile madness that just goes round and round ad nauseam. The problem is that neither argument can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. There is quite a bit of ambiguity and many questions that cannot be definitively answered.
As I watched the events of that horrible day unfold I was dumbstruck. When the buildings began to crumble something just didn’t look right, especially building 7. I had a strange feeling in my gut. Many of the Police and Fireman first responders heard secondary explosions, but who knows for sure? This was an unprecedented event. Never before have jumbo jets been flown into buildings. Maybe it did cause enough damage to bring the towers down. Maybe there was enough structural damage inflicted to building 7 to cause its eventual collapse. I just don’t know.
I think a 757 really did hit the Pentagon. There were just too many everyday people like you and me who saw it. They can’t all be mistaken or intentionally lying as part of a cover up. I do however believe that UAL flight 93 was most likely shot down over Shanksville because of the large debris field said to span 7 or 8 miles, but so what? Given the foreknowledge of the ultimate intentions of the previous hijackings this is exactly what should have happened.
For conspiracy believers I think you are all concentrating your focus and energy in the wrong places. To me the most damning evidence lies in all the war games that were taking place on that very day. The majority of the fighter interceptors that would normally be there to protect the Northeast were on training exercises in Canada and Alaska. There was also an exercise concerning a plane into building scenario. Norad and the FAA were conducting a joint exercise involving live flight aircraft mimicking the behavior of hijacked airplanes. They turned off their transponders and became only unidentifiable blips on a radar screen. When the hijackers then turned off their transponders there was no way to tell friend from foe, real world from exercise. All of these “coincidences” came together to produce the necessary “Fog of War” or confusion needed to pull something like this off.
The conspiracy deniers or debunkers often claim that there would have to be hundreds if not thousands of conspirators involved. They don’t know how compartmentalized the military and intelligence agencies are. I know, I had a high-level security clearance in the Army. Most of the time the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. The vast majority of the military men involved in the above scenarios didn’t have to know squat. There was no necessary media complicity. All it would take is a handful (maybe a couple dozen) of high level, highly skilled, and highly Machiavellian men to pull this off. All they had to do is set it up and watch it happen. And these kinds of people know how to keep secrets.
The London subway bombings are also highly suspect for the same reasons. British police and security forces were conducting an exercise concerning a terrorist plot to blow up subway trains and again, in the middle of the exercise this is exactly what happened and in the same exact stations where the exercises were taking place providing the necessary cover and confusion. This incident was used to justify and implement legislation that further eroded the personal rights and civil liberties of UK citizens in much the same way that The Homeland Security and Patriot Acts have curtailed ours.
There is an interesting phenomenon dealing with the human mind and how it handles challenges to its belief system. Basically, any idea or information incongruent with an individual’s core beliefs will usually be rejected especially if it threatens the very foundation those beliefs are built upon. Everybody is subject to this filtering process including me. I don’t think that I’m special.
Do I believe the 9/11 inside job theory? Not necessarily, but my worldview allows for the possibility.
Just a little food for thought
Wondering if you actually ever met and spoke to engineers, firefighters, and police who were there when Building 7 went down and who worked at the GZ site in the nine months after, or at Fresh Kills. I know, oh maybe two hundred of them.
As a matter of fact, do you even know what Fresh Kills is? I find it mystifying that most truthers (not saying you are one) have no clue what the place is or what the operations were there. Oh yes, because then they wouldn't be able to continue to claim that all the steel was sold off and the evidence destroyed and that no investigation took place....
But then to be a REAL truther you have to believe that the federal government somehow swooped down on lower Manhattan, cordoned off the area to everyone but federal employees and conducted the cleanup and investigation all by themselves....
The best bet is to stay away from YouTube videos, which, by the way, just like the news videos, look like friggin' cartoons to anyone who was actually there--you see maybe 10% of what was going on, if that. READ engineering reports, and not necessarily governmental ones. Read BOOKS--not pro/con conspiracy books, but books like American Ground and Tower Stories and the books about the recovery and investigation written by people who were there, not to have an agenda, but to tell the stories. Sadly, the REAL stories, the real fascinating information about everything from the morgue operations to the sorting systems out at Fresh Kills to the survivor stories, are unknown and get lost in the conspiracy crap.
Wondering if you actually ever met and spoke to engineers, firefighters, and police who were there when Building 7 went down and who worked at the GZ site in the nine months after, or at Fresh Kills. I know, oh maybe two hundred of them.
As a matter of fact, do you even know what Fresh Kills is? I find it mystifying that most truthers (not saying you are one) have no clue what the place is or what the operations were there. Oh yes, because then they wouldn't be able to continue to claim that all the steel was sold off and the evidence destroyed and that no investigation took place....
But then to be a REAL truther you have to believe that the federal government somehow swooped down on lower Manhattan, cordoned off the area to everyone but federal employees and conducted the cleanup and investigation all by themselves....
The best bet is to stay away from YouTube videos, which, by the way, just like the news videos, look like friggin' cartoons to anyone who was actually there--you see maybe 10% of what was going on, if that. READ engineering reports, and not necessarily governmental ones. Read BOOKS--not pro/con conspiracy books, but books like American Ground and Tower Stories and the books about the recovery and investigation written by people who were there, not to have an agenda, but to tell the stories. Sadly, the REAL stories, the real fascinating information about everything from the morgue operations to the sorting systems out at Fresh Kills to the survivor stories, are unknown and get lost in the conspiracy crap.
Hello MightyQueen,
In my post I intimated that it was entirely possible that towers 1,2, and 7 fell exactly as the official story claimed. I don't have any problem with that.
And yes I am familiar with the Staten Island Fresh Kills landfill where all the ground zero debris was dumped.
By ignoring most of what I said in my post and redirecting to the tactic of painting me with the same brush as others who believe the government "swooped" down and carted it all away you have crafted a classic straw man argument.
The intent of my post was to get people thinking about other aspects of the issue and to try to foster an atmosphere where people don't attack and insult one another. It should be clear from my post that I am not a "Truther."
I'm undecided. I think that there are interesting arguments on both sides.
Have a nice day!
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