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A group of people got the permission of a business owner to congregate on his property.
They did so with permission.
The police showed up and threatened them if they did not leave.
The police had no legal standing.
One gentleman (known here as jp49911…nice to meet you by the way) videoed the event making the police officer uncomfortable (I am being nice)
The police officer then began to question my new internet buddy and discovered jp49911 had a gun that he was openly carrying.
The police officer began to question my friend, and my friend while being polite and professional did not comply with requests that had no legal standing.
We are arguing if the police were right and if my friend and his friends were wrong in their actions.
The police left leaving the legal congregators to continue to legally congregate on private property that they had permission to be on….
Have I missed anything?
If I am right, why in the name of all that is sacred are you lefties all in a tizzy over this?
I already cited that law, and posted the text as well. I bolded the relevant portion. You replied to my post.
Here it is again:
Quote:
§ 14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.
If you're going to maintain that he was in violation of this law, you're going to have to first provide evidence that he was on either clinic property or public property. If you can't do that, then you can stop trying.
If you can (which you won't be able to), then you'll next have to provide the statutes that define "parade", "funeral procession", "picket line" and "demonstration", and provide evidence supporting your allegation that he was part of a group fitting one of those definitions.
ahh but the law states he cannot carry on the clinic property or protest on public property while armed.
He was in fact on private propety thus nothing else matters. He is legally allowed to do what he did. Otherwise his butt would be in jail right now and his gun would be property of the ATF while both state and federal charges were pending.
I already cited that law, and posted the text as well. I bolded the relevant portion. You replied to my post.
Here it is again:
If you're going to maintain that he was in violation of this law, you're going to have to first provide evidence that he was on either clinic property or public property. If you can't do that, then you can stop trying.
If you can (which you won't be able to), then you'll next have to provide the statutes that define "parade", "funeral procession", "picket line" and "demonstration", and provide evidence supporting your allegation that he was part of a group fitting one of those definitions.
Have fun.
hee hee, I love the south... that last part makes me smile...."It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act."
I love my southern heritage! we drove to school with gun racks in the truck. nobody ever got hurt, but boy lemme tell you after school the deer/squirrels and ducks were sure in for it!
by the time he realized you were there, you were already too close, and he moved agressively to deal with that.
"That" according to your sentence structure makes it mean that you are saying: once he realized I was there he moved aggressively to deal with how close I was.
If he was trying to deal with how close I was why did he NEVER address my distance? i.e. "keep your distance", "step back" etc.
Quote:
when they had called to complain of a crime.
There was no crime.
Quote:
What in hell has this got to do with anything here?
It has everything to do with it because THAT'S why I went to record.
I realize that we are in a growing police state and that police brutality is more and more prevalent. In the second video It's very clear that a video recording is very important to seeking justice when police get out of hand.
Soooo...
-If you or a family member of yours were the victim of any of the police brutality in the second video, would you have wanted me to "put the phone up"?
Quote:
I think that you got in his face
Can you tell me the minute and second of the video where this happened?
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I think he or the person advising him on the phone recognized something that you should have recognized; the RIGHT to do something does not create an OBLIGATION to do it.
Yes. The right to record a PUBLIC SERVANT do his PUBLIC JOB to have record in the event he gets out of hand is not an obligation.
Thank you for acknowledging that I go above and beyond what I'm obligated to do. It's never an OBLIGATION to protect others liberty...it's only the right thing to do.
If you're going to maintain that he was in violation of this law, you're going to have to first provide evidence that he was on either clinic property or public property. If you can't do that, then you can stop trying.
The law does no require you to be on the clinic property. The clinic doesn't need the law for that, they can forbid you to be on their property. "[D]emonstration upon any private health care facility" means a demonstration directed at the facility. If you're on public property or other private property you are still "demonstrating upon the facility."
Definition of "Upon" -- in or into complete or approximate contact with, as an attacker or an important or pressing occasion: The enemy was upon us and our soldiers had little time to escape. The Christmas holiday will soon be upon us and we have hardly begun to buy gifts. The time to take action is upon us.
The law clearly states that he can be nothing more than a spectator and the prohibition of being armed still applies.
The law does no require you to be on the clinic property. The clinic doesn't need the law for that, they can forbid you to be on their property. "[D]emonstration upon any private health care facility" means a demonstration directed at the facility. If you're on public property or other private property you are still "demonstrating upon the facility."
Definition of "Upon" -- in or into complete or approximate contact with, as an attacker or an important or pressing occasion: The enemy was upon us and our soldiers had little time to escape. The Christmas holiday will soon be upon us and we have hardly begun to buy gifts. The time to take action is upon us.
The law clearly states that he can be nothing more than a spectator and the prohibition of being armed still applies.
yet for some reason the popo left and the peacful gatherers stayed...
and if you heard video, they were just gathering. they were not protesting.
A group of people got the permission of a business owner to congregate on his property.
They did so with permission.
The police showed up and threatened them if they did not leave.
The police had no legal standing.
One gentleman (known here as jp49911…nice to meet you by the way) videoed the event making the police officer uncomfortable (I am being nice)
The police officer then began to question my new internet buddy and discovered jp49911 had a gun that he was openly carrying.
The police officer began to question my friend, and my friend while being polite and professional did not comply with requests that had no legal standing.
We are arguing if the police were right and if my friend and his friends were wrong in their actions.
The police left leaving the legal congregators to continue to legally congregate on private property that they had permission to be on….
Have I missed anything?
If I am right, why in the name of all that is sacred are you lefties all in a tizzy over this?
You had me at hello!
Quote:
hee hee, I love the south... that last part makes me smile...."It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act."
A group of people got the permission of a business owner to congregate on his property.
No one has ever stated that any permission was obtained from anyone. It may have been, but that fact is not in evidence at present.
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Originally Posted by Ferd
They did so with permission.
See above.
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Originally Posted by Ferd
The police showed up and threatened them if they did not leave.
We have not been told that anyone was threatened. James tells us the police erroneously accused them of trespassing and demanded they leave.
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Originally Posted by Ferd
The police had no legal standing.
How can you say the police had no standing here? They are in what appears to be the driveway that opens to the parking lots of several businesses. Ibelieve the police in most jurisdictions are empowered to enforce the laws of thheir jurisdiction on such premises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
One gentleman (known here as jp49911…nice to meet you by the way) videoed the event making the police officer uncomfortable (I am being nice)
That's one way to look at it. Another is that he made the officer uncomfortable by getting very close to that officer and intruding ion whatever he was doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
The police officer then began to question my new internet buddy and discovered jp49911 had a gun that he was openly carrying.
That discomfort appears to have been heightened by the officers realization that James (your new internet buddy) was armed, and that the officer didn't know James intentions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
The police officer began to question my friend, and my friend while being polite and professional did not comply with requests that had no legal standing.
I would say that "polite and professional" is a generous categorization of James attitude. More accurate, in my opinion, would be a description that included the words unhelpful, antagonistic and beligerent. The officer had every right to ask who James was, and whether James was in fact old enough to be carrying a weapon, which question James refused to answer, which is certainly James right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
We are arguing if the police were right and if my friend and his friends were wrong in their actions.
We are also discussing the issue that, while LEGAL, James actions and the police officers may not have been the best way to deal with the situation, as both simply antoagonized the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
The police left leaving the legal congregators to continue to legally congregate on private property that they had permission to be on….[/b]
The police left, and james camera was turned off. Just before the video clip ends, we hear approaching sirens, so we do not know what happened, whether the preaching was allowed to continue, or whether they were in fact trespassing.
I aksed earlier in the thread if there was someone local to the area who knows exactly where this event transpired, and when. Perhaps further facts could be brought in to clarify.
Last edited by Bill Keegan; 10-21-2009 at 01:36 PM..
Reason: Fixed the html
This moron is guilty of POPO (pi**ing off a Police Officer) and criminal Stupidity. Some night when he's all alone and those red lights bounce off his mirror he'll get a dose of the real world
What do you mean? Please, tell us from your experience what would happen.
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