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Old 12-30-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,851,724 times
Reputation: 4585

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
To not have health insurance is, IMHO, an extremely foolish lifestyle choice. However, I thought we were free in the US to make those bad choices.
A basic rule of thumb is, you are free to make bad choices as long as they do not affect others.

 
Old 12-30-2009, 11:09 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,458,172 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
1 : a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also : a system marked by such control
2 : emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity
collectivism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

So instead of people making choices for themselves you'd have people who can hardly figure out how to get out of the rain making decisions for millions of people. Sounds like the politicians you want to be in charge are allowed to make bad decisions all day and all the left can come up with is GIVING THEM MORE POWER AND CONTROL!
 
Old 12-30-2009, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,851,724 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Granted, there are savings to be found in reigning in administrative costs but not the 30% you claim could be saved on premiums....and the place to start is with the government programs which have more overhead costs than private insurers. One might ask, regarding the government complaining about the overhead in private insurance, "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
I don't believe I ever said there would be 30% saving in premiums. I am just stating there could be a significant amount saved. That of course would be depending on how well the program is run. We do know how the current private system is run, it has about a 30% overhead cost. Alternatively, there are significant savings that could be attained, if properly run. Whether it is properly run or not, depends a lot on us. Who we choose to represent us.
 
Old 12-30-2009, 11:37 AM
 
8,886 posts, read 5,368,429 times
Reputation: 5690
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
I don't believe I ever said there would be 30% saving in premiums. I am just stating there could be a significant amount saved. That of course would be depending on how well the program is run. We do know how the current private system is run, it has about a 30% overhead cost. Alternatively, there are significant savings that could be attained, if properly run. Whether it is properly run or not, depends a lot on us. Who we choose to represent us.
I choose not to have the government any more involved than it presently is with my healthcare.
 
Old 12-30-2009, 11:42 AM
 
457 posts, read 756,877 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Let it be their choice knowing full well the consequences.
Ya know, that's an interesting comment. If we as parents follow through on "consequences" our children will learn that there are consequences for all actions good or bad. IMO, we live in a time when we simply warn of consequences instead of following through and have them (children) experience it (over protecting).
Congress/Senate are these spoiled little children that do not get to experience the consequences of bad decisions. They (congress/senate) get to make laws that prohibit the proverbial parent from following through. Now here we are with a large portion of the American population opposing the proposed healthcare bill and they (congress/senate) are completely disregarding the voice of the people they are supposed to represent. We did this in our laziness; our busy lives were too much to be bothered with having to vote on local and now federal issues that seemed to be more of a nuisance than a duty.
We can still act, we can redirect our government to represent it’s people and not the special interest groups, we can take a stand as a parent should to hold our children accountable for good and bad actions and prevent the “Lord of the Flies” from continuing its rein.

Lord of the Flies; awesome book!
 
Old 12-30-2009, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 9,061,904 times
Reputation: 3360
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
I don't believe I ever said there would be 30% saving in premiums. I am just stating there could be a significant amount saved. That of course would be depending on how well the program is run. We do know how the current private system is run, it has about a 30% overhead cost. Alternatively, there are significant savings that could be attained, if properly run. Whether it is properly run or not, depends a lot on us. Who we choose to represent us.
Sorry, that was another poster and I confused your post with theirs.


If the government is currently spending MORE on overhead costs how would anyone conclude that turning over the private insurance industry to the government would result in lower overhead? Especially when considering the 2000 pages of additional mandates, regulations, taxes, fees, etc. in the currently proposed bills.
 
Old 12-30-2009, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,254,467 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
A basic rule of thumb is, you are free to make bad choices as long as they do not affect others.
Potentially, EVERY choice I make might affect / effect others.

Yet, I have the RIGHT to make those decisions.

Some seem dedicated to taking away my FREEDOMS
 
Old 12-30-2009, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,851,724 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Potentially, EVERY choice I make might affect / effect others.

Yet, I have the RIGHT to make those decisions.

Some seem dedicated to taking away my FREEDOMS
You are exactly right that you can make your own decisions. That is why, in a civilized society, it is incumbent on each individual to take the appropriate steps to protect others from being harmed by you. There are volumes of Law Books written and laws passed that provide the consequences to those that do not adhere to the principles of Civilized Society. Those Statutes were written to protect all of our FREEDOMS, not just yours.
 
Old 12-30-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,254,467 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
You are exactly right that you can make your own decisions. That is why, in a civilized society, it is incumbent on each individual to take the appropriate steps to protect others from being harmed by you. There are volumes of Law Books written and laws passed that provide the consequences to those that do not adhere to the principles of Civilized Society. Those Statutes were written to protect all of our FREEDOMS, not just yours.
Yet, the decision to "take care" of myself lies entirely with me.

There is no law (yet anyways) that says I must EVER go to a doctor. And there are many who do not ever go see a physician.

Why should this group be forced - under a threat of incarceration, to buy health insurance?
 
Old 12-30-2009, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,851,724 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Yet, the decision to "take care" of myself lies entirely with me.

There is no law (yet anyways) that says I must EVER go to a doctor. And there are many who do not ever go see a physician.

Why should this group be forced - under a threat of incarceration, to buy health insurance?
For those who live in a bubble, their own world, their own universe, I guess that would be a valid argument.
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