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I think the issue goes beyond IQ. Many Asians arrive in this country with nothing. They also move to the ghetto and work menial jobs. They are also classified as poor socioeconomically. Yet, their children become educated, their families remain together and eventually they rise beyond their poor socioeconomic status. Why is that? I think the answer comes down to culture and values. The idea of getting a divorce among Asian families is a taboo. The idea of an Asian father not being responsible and raising his children is an embarrassment in the comunity and not tolerated. Asian families also believe in sacrafice and particularly sacraficing for their children. Many poor Asian parents will deny themselves luxuries to make certain their children go to college. Many will also sacrafice in the short term to enjoy pleasures later. For example, I was reading about this Asian family who moved to a poor area of Los Angelas. They had little money but whatever they did, they saved and bought a little restaurant. They lived in that restaurant as well and continued to save and reinvest until they were successful and this is a fairly common story among Asian families. Even substance abuse is rare among Asian families as many of their faiths ban them and use of them is considered taboo even on occasion.
Most Asian immigrants are at least in the middle income stratum before coming to the US. If we discet the "Asian" community, we have SE Asians and NE Asians. SE Asian communities have less money than those from Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. Substance abuse is higher in SE Asian communities. Lower family incomes, higher crime rates, etc. are seen in the poor SE Asian community. Cambodians, Laotian, Hmong, and Vietnamese populations have a lower educational attainment than the national average.
This is why the "model minority" take on race relations doesn't work.
African Americans will never progress if they continue to use the race card as their scapegoat. Most of their ills are caused by flaws in their culture. If they are to succeed they have to change their culture. For example, many African Americans still believe succees in life is only achieved through limited pathways like sports and the entertainment industry. They don't emphasize education enough. Parents of African American children don't get involved with their children's school and homework. If you examine their family structure, many fathers are not involved in the lives of their children. I'm not denying that many injustices have been committed against them in the past and that discrepancy has affected them. However, where do you draw the line? Affirmative action has existed for more than 3 decades now. African Americans have had civil rights for more than 40 years. I'm not arguing everything is equal now but I don't think all of their problems are due to socioeconomic factors. I think many of the problems are attributed to faults within their own culture. It seems like the African Americans who have succeeded have made a deliberate effort to reject the ills associated with their culture or not allow their children to fall into the same traps as other African American children.
Most of this are just plain racial stereotypes. Don't you think that African Americans want their kids to go to college? Being Black myself (I'm half White, though), I was always treated with special gloves when it came to me going to college. My dad went to college. His dad went to college. My brother went to West Point. My dad opted out of not getting is Phd...settled for only a masters. The difference? Well, I grew up in a middle income neighborhood. My grand parents were pretty well off. Even on my mom's side in Africa (she's from Ivory Coast), they were well off for Ivorians. My cousins are doctors and lawyers. Econbomics plays a HUGE role.
I am talking about the poverty, I am talking about the high crime poverty striken areas. I am talking about the same inner city neighborhood where Derrion Albert the honer student was beaten to death, the same neighborhood where the 17 yr girl lost her eye in the gang fight she got pulled into. The same neighborhood that the students that killed the honor student just the other day had more arrested for a riot in the lunchroom. This is the same school and neighborhood that the article was talking about. So you say that the people in this exact neighborhood have low IQ's, and when I pointed out the fact that you were incorrect, and even gave examples, you say you are not talking about the exact area that is being discussed. So, if you are not talking about the area that the article was talking about, the areas that are considered poor black crime ridden neighborhoods, then please tell which areas you are talking about?
The only reason the Chicago neighborhood was referenced in the article was to quote something that Eric Holder said while he was there. It is not the Chicago neighborhood that is being discussed. What is being discussed is blaming poor black parenting on racism. My point was that illegitimacy and poor parenting are two of the social pathologies that are associated with low IQ. Others include crime, incarceration, poor academic performance, poverty, etc.
I was saying that some people may not have the ability to get out of poverty. If this includes leaving certain 'ghetto' areas of inner city neighborhoods then so be it. The neighborhood that you describe that includes doctors, nurses, college students, etc does not fit the bill of a 'ghetto' area.
If you want to argue my points that's fine but don't mis-characterize something I said. You are completely missing the point of the entire thread. I'm sorry we had to take time out from the discussion at hand to point these things out to you. Nobody is dissing your former neighborhood. Rest easy.
Based on this information, we can estimate in every major inner city across the country the Black Male unemployment rate is around 40%. These numbers are appalling...
With stats like this is it really surprising that we have Black family breakdowns across the country? You aren't going to get the most marriagable Black men and stable families out of unemployment numbers like these no matter what Obama or Cosby say in their speeches.
With stats like this is it really surprising that we have Black family breakdowns across the country? You aren't going to get the most marriagable Black men and stable families out of unemployment numbers like these no matter what Obama or Cosby say in their speeches.
So now we are blaming illegitimacy and poor parenting on high unemployment? How about unemployment was already high among inner city black men even before the recession? People in poor neighborhoods are poor. Surprise! They are poor because they are unemployed or under employed.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,766,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin
the real problem is that these minorities are told by their schools and government (school is an indoctrination camp owned and operated by government after all) ...
that they are nothing but one person, and that this is a socialistic America, where groups are more important than individuals...
Socialism (which public school is) , causes these kids to have no hope for their futures. These kids have simply not been taught about individualism, the free market (a true free market, not what we currently have), the Natural Rights they have, etc, etc...
They have felt powerless since 1st grade all the way till senior year... they were never given any empowerent to believe in themselves. They were only told that government and others must provide for them through welfare and laws and programs.. They did not have the slightest idea that they could make change happen themselves, by providing and making for themselves on their own merit.
After all, public school is nothing but a Rehabilitation Center for all the youth. Where they are forced to go, and to learn everything the teacher spews out , and everything the socialistic slanted textbooks teach. The teachers taught the kids to love and to honor government instead of God. The teachers dare not bite the hand that feeds them.
So yea, the reason minorities commit crime the most is b.c they are the ones forced into these public schools. The white people send their children to private school or home-school to avoid the indoctrination.
And yes there are some other reasons why blacks commit more crime, and it usually has to do with parents not being there for them, and the fact that the majority of them live in liberal cities, where the governments treat them like crap, and make it impossible for them to make it on their own by starting a small business or affording a decent place to live with the high taxation. And also the deterioration of civil liberties in those cities.
Actually capitalism is more of an indicator of today's young black male than is socialism. Today's black male lust for the trappings of conspicuous capitalism whether it be a luxury SUV with golden rims or a $200 pair of Nike shoes. And, because they are oppressed and often culturally reject education, crime is a method for them to fulfill what capitalism holds out as valuable to the young black male.
The only reason the Chicago neighborhood was referenced in the article was to quote something that Eric Holder said while he was there. It is not the Chicago neighborhood that is being discussed. What is being discussed is blaming poor black parenting on racism. My point was that illegitimacy and poor parenting are two of the social pathologies that are associated with low IQ. Others include crime, incarceration, poor academic performance, poverty, etc.
It almost seems as if you are correlating IQ to race. The IQ test in itself is a poor indicator. Poverty is not a "pathology". This is one of the most absurd statements I've read.
Wow, as if I thought the far right would not get any more crazy. Is is possible that just maybe, oh, just maybe...there is an underlying economic inequality caused by...I don't know...over 200 years of racial inequality in this nation.
Public schools are not the culprit. Rather, the whole issue of wealth is at hand as well. Poorer communities typically have higher crime rates.
So wealth is the issue you say???? Then explain why black rappers, with plenty of money, continue to carry guns, sell drugs, get shot, go to jail....etc. Same goes for black pro sports players. They make plenty of money, but yet continue to break the law and end up in jail.
Money is not the issue. Lack of morals and values being taught within the minority community seems more the reason.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,766,887 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Dude
But it isn't my fault minorities continue to take low-paying jobs, there are so many ways to get an education in this country that anyone legal or not can get ahold of them.
At one time you could get a decent paying job in this country with a high school diploma. My father had a job at Boeing and all that was required to work there was a HS diploma or a GED. You could also join the service right out of high school if you could not afford college (which is what I did) and after you did your service they would pay for your college (which they did). These avenues are not open like they used to be.
It almost seems as if you are correlating IQ to race. The IQ test in itself is a poor indicator. Poverty is not a "pathology". This is one of the most absurd statements I've read.
Agreed. Poverty is a poor life outcome that can be caused by low IQ. Now that we have that straightened out let's get back to the discussion at hand.
I'm correlating Low IQ to poor life outcomes and social pathologies. Based on studies, people with low IQs are at high risk for both. The IQ test is a very good indicator. There is an extremely high correlation between people who test with low IQs and people who experience poor life outcomes and social pathologies.
Last edited by Reelist in Atlanta; 10-24-2009 at 12:02 PM..
Actually capitalism is more of an indicator of today's young black male than is socialism. Today's black male lust for the trappings of conspicuous capitalism whether it be a luxury SUV with golden rims or a $200 pair of Nike shoes. And, because they are oppressed and often culturally reject education, crime is a method for them to fulfill what capitalism holds out as valuable to the young black male.
The average American in general lusts for consumer goods. This is why the average savings rate was close to nill prior to the recession. The average credit card debt, however, rose. It's not just a "Black" thing.
I think I understand what you may TRY to be saying. If there is a void in terms of jobs/education, then people go towards crime. Is this the gist, or are the extraneous bits (Nike shoes, luxury SUV as a motivator) actually relevant. If they are, then this is far from the truth.
Education is simply not there in many communities. Thus, how do you reject what does not exist?
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