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Old 10-25-2009, 09:11 PM
 
20,194 posts, read 21,563,740 times
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The new "thing" about health care reform is that states can opt-out... what does that mean? I know its funded in part by a specific number of groups of people... does that mean taxes will be only for those who live in the states that "opt-in"??? Whats the point of opting out if you are going to have to pay for it? Or does it work differently? Anyone know?
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:18 PM
 
432 posts, read 546,832 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
The new "thing" about health care reform is that states can opt-out... what does that mean? I know its funded in part by a specific number of groups of people... does that mean taxes will be only for those who live in the states that "opt-in"??? Whats the point of opting out if you are going to have to pay for it? Or does it work differently? Anyone know?

that's what they said about turning the national drinking age to 21....... the feds told the states they could opt out from doing it in their state..


wasn't until the bill was already made law that they states found out they got blackmailed....


yea, they could opt out of doing what the feds demanded, they just wouldn't get the highway funds they were promised from before if they didn't comply



something like that would likely happen with this.....



and also , yea, if you can opt out , but still have to pay in, doesn't make sense.. just use of double speak by the propaganda machines trying to pass an unpopular bill down our throats
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,604 posts, read 8,531,477 times
Reputation: 7370
You will have to buy insurance for yourself or pay a penalty of sorts under the insurance mandate. You could buy public option insurance if you want, unless your state ops-out of the public option. Then you'll be stuck with the same insurance cos. your state has always had. Public option is presented by the administration as being much more affordable. The jury is out on that fact.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 76,820,773 times
Reputation: 27652
I found this evil. I don't know your feelings on Fox but please just read the content. It is fairly detailed on explaining why the states want to opt out.

One interesting tidbit in this article..the Supreme Court ruled against FDR with some of his programs during the Great Depression. I wasn't aware of that.

State Lawmakers Considering Move to Opt Out of Federal Health Care - Political News - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/25/state-lawmakers-considering-opt-federal-healthcare/ - broken link)

snippet about FDR:
"The Tenth Amendment ensures that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." It's the same constitutional roadblock Franklin D. Roosevelt ran into during the Great Depression when he tried to ram through the first round of recovery programs under the New Deal. In a series of rulings, the U.S. Supreme Court found the National Recovery Act, the Agricultural Adjustment Act and several other recovery programs unconstitutional.

But constitutional scholars say it's unlikely history will repeat itself with health care reform efforts. "It's hard to imagine Congress passing anything that would be plausibly challengeable under the Tenth Amendment, but it's certainly theoretically possible," said Paul Bender, professor of constitutional law at Arizona State University. He said Congress has broad powers to regulate interstate commerce, which would include something as big as health care."
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,604 posts, read 8,531,477 times
Reputation: 7370
[quote=ManGoneADreamin;11344174]that's what they said about turning the national drinking age to 21....... the feds told the states they could opt out from doing it in their state..


wasn't until the bill was already made law that they states found out they got blackmailed....


yea, they could opt out of doing what the feds demanded, they just wouldn't get the highway funds they were promised from before if they didn't comply




something like that would likely happen with this.....



and also , yea, if you can opt out , but still have to pay in, doesn't make sense.. just use of double speak by the propaganda machines trying to pass an unpopular bill down our throats[/quote

Had to get your agenda in, couldn't give a straight answer to a straight question. hah.
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,813 posts, read 91,511,539 times
Reputation: 48822
I truely do not think anyone will know what we are getting until after something is passed, then the congress will start adding and subtracting things. This is one reason so many are concerned. It isn't not wanting reform, it is what are we getting?

Nita
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:41 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 13,737,277 times
Reputation: 4537
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
The new "thing" about health care reform is that states can opt-out... what does that mean? I know its funded in part by a specific number of groups of people... does that mean taxes will be only for those who live in the states that "opt-in"??? Whats the point of opting out if you are going to have to pay for it? Or does it work differently? Anyone know?
That's the Billion dollar question.

I was just researching this today and could not find a thing on this.

Are taxpayers in "opt out" States exempt from the tax?

If not, maybe they recieve a pro-rated portion of the Federal revenue raised by this new tax on househoulds over earning over $250K per year to spend as they wish?

If so how does that formula work?

Either way Blue States win.....

They either get to keep all the money for their programs out right, or they don't have to pay for poor Red States who wouldn't generate enough revenue to pay for the program in their States anyways.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,884 posts, read 30,067,945 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
The new "thing" about health care reform is that states can opt-out... what does that mean? I know its funded in part by a specific number of groups of people... does that mean taxes will be only for those who live in the states that "opt-in"??? Whats the point of opting out if you are going to have to pay for it? Or does it work differently? Anyone know?
Obama has to have public option. Pelosi and Reid have to have public option. Now how many fools in the moderate group of Dems and the Republicans have received what kinds of promises from those people over the weekend if they support it? I don't know but I am sure that some rather silly promises were made and accepted.

Now we get public option along with that opt out crap and something called co-ops. Which of any of them is important? I say none of them. I would say that allowing insurance companies to cross state lines for a long enough time to see what happened to prices and programs, like 3 to 5 years may have worked. However, public option will destroy all of them in less that 3 years and then you have government controlled public health. That is what that triumverate, Obama, Reid, and Pelosi want to see happen.

Those people know that making promises works to get votes on the floor. They have made some ridiculous promises and have dissuaded some opponents of theirs with them.

Anyone can see what they want done and what public option - state opt in or out is but I don't think we will like something like this that was drawn up by Reid, Dodd, Schumer and Baucus without anyone else involved. Not a one of them cares a bit about any of us. They sat in there in that room with the closed door for nearly a week making up something and will throw it to the CBO today and hope they can get it in under $1 trillion so they can do their thing. Socialized medicine is the goal and this public option is considered by Barney Frank to be the first step to single payer insurance. Who calls all the shots after this happens? States opting out won't make a damn and the people in those states will pay the say taxes as those in the states that opted in to support what this law is supposed to cover. Anybody can see what they are doing.

I don't trust any politician but mostly I don't trust that group that made this bill up and made the lying promises this weekend.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,884 posts, read 30,067,945 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
That's the Billion dollar question.

I was just researching this today and could not find a thing on this.

Are taxpayers in "opt out" States exempt from the tax?

If not, maybe they recieve a pro-rated portion of the Federal revenue raised by this new tax on househoulds over earning over $250K per year to spend as they wish?

If so how does that formula work?

Either way Blue States win.....

They either get to keep all the money for their programs out right, or they don't have to pay for poor Red States who wouldn't generate enough revenue to pay for the program in their States anyways.
In other words if the Congressmen of a Red State vote for this proposed bill they are voting for Schumer's state, Dodd's state, and Reid's state since Baucus is from a Red State. Why in hell can't we start thinking about the people of the United States instead of just Republicans or Democrats? Those colors pertain to Presidential elections and nothing else. Boy, do I wish people like you could stop trying to keep the people of this nation divided.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:10 PM
 
45 posts, read 39,122 times
Reputation: 19
The "opt-out" provision should be grouped with two other government administered programs, Medicare and Social Security. In other words, if you opt out of the public option, you automatically opt out of Medicare and Social Security as well.
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