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Old 10-27-2009, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,199,083 times
Reputation: 2572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Okay we are getting somewhere...

So it is your assertion that in the USA the ownership of land is becoming more and more concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people?
Absolutely
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,870,208 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Absolutely
Just so we are clear on this,you are stating that in the USA, fewer people own land today than in the past?
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,199,083 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
So if we define that voluntary exchange among people as somehow predatory and unjust, what is the better or more "just" way of exchange? More importantly, who gets to define "justice" for everyone else?

Its not "voluntary". Most exchanges made between those who own nothing, and those who own something, are made under economic duress.

If I dont sell my labor to you, I cant buy your eggs, and I need your eggs to live. If I dont buy your eggs, you still have eggs to eat, you just dont get to profit my labor value. There is nothing other then profit motivating you to hire me, while starvation is motivating me to work for you.

The just way of exchange is to remove the non voluntary economic duress from exchange. This is accomplished through removing private ownership of capital.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:17 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,870,208 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
This is accomplished through removing private ownership of capital.
Who/what would own it if not private individuals?
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,815,033 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Keep your day job (if you have one)

Seriously, what exactly would you do to change things?

For instance, you want to limit incomes / salaries. How so?
First, we have to acknowledge that their is no such thing as "trickle down" economics!
We need to put regulations in place for our financial institutions and huge corporations that control too much $$$ in this country.

Interest rates on loans and credit cards need to be made sensible again. Money made from high interest credit is essentially money that is taken from the poor!
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:19 AM
 
17,291 posts, read 29,402,468 times
Reputation: 8691
[quote=Mr. Joshua;11364321]
Quote:

I was not referring to federal taxes.
Then what ARE you referring to?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua
Careful. Half of those "red states" (Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, The Carolinas, Georgia, etc. are characteristically more that 30% African American. Not making a judgement call on AAs but I'm thinking that you have a mental picture of these states that isn't based on reality.
When the "Deep South" breaks its habit of voting blood red every election, then I will change my perception. Until then, the only logical conclusion is that a state that votes conservative is in favor of conservative fiscal policies. Racial demographics have absolutely nothing to do with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua
"Long long time"? I'd really be interested to know exactly how long. Can you lead me to the proper links so that I can see where you get your info from regarding this claim?
Red States Make a Mockery Of Self-Reliance (washingtonpost.com)

The Tax Foundation - Federal Spending Received Per Dollar of Taxes Paid by State, 2005

In health-care plan, give secession a chance - MarketWatch
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,199,083 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Just so we are clear on this,you are stating that in the USA, fewer people own land today than in the past?
No, more people own land, but thats a function of population growth. However, those pieces of land are unbelievably smaller and less productive then people in their same economic brackets had in past times.

Additionally, the number of "land owners" who are deeply mortgaged has increased dramatically as lending standards fell, and more people became comfortable with using and abusing credit.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,522 posts, read 10,199,083 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Who/what would own it if not private individuals?
Noone would "own" anything, but the workers would control the operation of their own factory, and would enjoy all of their own labor value.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,815,703 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Okay...how will it be done?
I foresee much anger, violence, looting and vandalism in the future, commonly referred to as a "revolution". That will solve the problem.

Last edited by Chango; 10-27-2009 at 09:27 AM.. Reason: spell edit
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:28 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,256 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Noone would "own" anything, but the workers would control the operation of their own factory, and would enjoy all of their own labor value.
So these workers would build this factory with materials stolen, er rather appropriated for themselves, from other people correct?
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