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Old 11-04-2009, 08:04 PM
 
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When hussein obama is in trouble BRING UP BUSH.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:09 PM
 
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Why is the concept of wealth redistribution acceptable to liberals on a national basis but not an international basis? If you believe Bush is responsible for China's prosperity I would think you would hail Bush, as the last eight years transferred more wealth to China than in the past two thousand years combined. The standard of living for the average Chinaman has increased dramaticly. Isn't that what you guys wanted? Equality for all.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,366,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
It's the end of the American Empire as we knew it.


Costly bank fraud?

Bush didn't sign GLBA. Clinton did that.


"Repeals the restrictions on banks affiliating with securities firms contained in sections 20 and 32 of the Glass-Steagall Act."

CRA Amendments in the Gramm-Leach Act

Wow, looks like Clinton was the big deregulator.


YouTube - Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and Democrats are Clueless on Freddie Mac Fannie Mae and the financial credit crisis.




Would have been nice if Congress would have done what Bush wanted back in 2003 and created a new regulator to replace OFHEO. He sent Snow up to Capital Hill but no one was listening. Same thing happened when McCain co-sponsored S.190 back in 2005. In fact, the Democrats, to include BO, were threatening filibuster. Shame really. this whole thing could have been avoided if democrats weren't fighting reform tooth and nail.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:15 PM
 
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'I'd say 1 unneccesary war'

No, both are unecessary - or do you really believe that the Taliban were responsible for 9-11?

'and that started when????.....1999 Clinton DEREGULATES the banking industry'

The worst housing loans were made under Bush's tenure

'and where did that start???.....2000 clinton signs the China trade bill....2000/1 clinton pushes to get china into the world bank'

The Repubs backed it all the way - and China's huge economic expansion came under Bush, not Clinton


'bush sucked, but most of our problems started before him'

they became problems under Bush
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:18 PM
 
4,538 posts, read 4,810,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyDaysCopenhagenSkoal View Post
You must be pretty young to think like that.
You're what... mid 20s?

I'm not that old, but even I remember reading about articles describing "The Pacific Age" as early as 1986, when many predcited that the Chinese and other Asian Tiger economies would accelerate rapidly and surpass the US in terms of economic output in the 21st century.

We were even talking about it in 1997 (Clinton) when the first Asian financial crisis took place.

Bush was hardly responsible for that. Maybe he faciliated their growth, just like Clinton and Bush Sr. did before, but he certainly wasn't ultimately responsible.

It is true that Bush's unnecessary war left little "marge de manouevre" concerning the fed interest rate policy in fighting the recession, which actually had its roots in beginning 07. We had already printed a lot of money to sell to the Chinese back then to foot the bill for the US deficit. I've got lots of hard data on that, for those who want to disagree.

While many can blame Bush for the lax oversight regarding the banks, he cannot take all of the responsibility. It was just a continuation of Clinton policies back in the late 90s when Glass-Steagel (sp?) was repealed. It took a couple of years before the recent fraud type was perfected to such outlandish greedy extremes, but even in 97 when I was in school, we were celebrating the deregulation, because for many of us, it meant lucrative careers in investment banking.

Of course, I never expected unethical behavior to take the form that it did the past 2-3 years. In 1997, it was more of a wimpy financial fraud. I got out of the business, because in order to survive and make the big bonuses, I had to be very unethical, dishonest, and continuously discredit competing teams of colleagues... no thanks. I'm A type, but I'm not as greedy as the others were. We were even dividing up the bonuses already at the beginning of the year when we had not even performed our jobs yet. That's how bad it got. We even excluded colleagues from bonuses that never had a chance to perform. It was already decided at beginning year secret Sunday bonus meetings.

Son, the economic collapse was initiated by Bush - things were just fine under Clinton. Maybe he and Cheney were too busy concentrating on securing Iraq's oil interests, but they ignored the bank fraud during his reign.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Miami
888 posts, read 886,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Son, the economic collapse was initiated by Bush - things were just fine under Clinton. Maybe he and Cheney were too busy concentrating on securing Iraq's oil interests, but they ignored the bank fraud during his reign.
Perhaps... but the culture of financial innovation that was flowering during the mid-1990s, where SECURITIZATION (sound familiar) became a mainstream financial instrument, and where I-Bankers were constantly trying to come up with new complicated financial instruments - was already in play and developing way before the financial crisis. It just got out of hand during the Bush adminisrtation, but the seeds were planted back in the 1990s.

I remember in 1998 right before I graduated doing studies on CDOs (Collateralized Debt Obligations) and Corporate Default Swaps... these are exactly the instruments that were responsible for the crisis last year. Bush just assumed that since the Harvard and Ivy Leaguers were responsible that they could hedge away the risk... but for many technical reasons it wasn't possible.

And if you really want to go into the roots of loan securitization, the first packaging of mortgage loans sold to investors on the market happened way back in 1969 under NIXON... but of course I was just a desire in the eye of my Dad, right before he got my Mom to agree to have his way with her.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:37 PM
 
4,538 posts, read 4,810,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyDaysCopenhagenSkoal View Post
Perhaps... but the culture of financial innovation that was flowering during the mid-1990s, where SECURITIZATION (sound familiar) became a mainstream financial instrument, and where I-Bankers were constantly trying to come up with new complicated financial instruments - was already in play and developing way before the financial crisis. It just got out of hand during the Bush adminisrtation, but the seeds were planted back in the 1990s.

I remember in 1998 right before I graduated doing studies on CDOs (Collateralized Debt Obligations) and Corporate Default Swaps... these are exactly the instruments that were responsible for the crisis last year. Bush just assumed that since the Harvard and Ivy Leaguers were responsible that they could hedge away the risk... but for many technical reasons it wasn't possible.

And if you really want to go into the roots of loan securitization, the first packaging of mortgage loans sold to investors on the market happened way back in 1969 under NIXON... but of course I was just a desire in the eye of my Dad, right before he got my Mom to agree to have his way with her.
CDO's are legitimate as long as the underlying mortgages are sound - all that went out the window with the no-down, no-doc loans doled out under the Bush watch (or non-watch).
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Miami
888 posts, read 886,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
CDO's are legitimate as long as the underlying mortgages are sound - all that went out the window with the no-down, no-doc loans doled out under the Bush watch (or non-watch).
CDOs most always have mortages within them that default. This was true back in the 90s as well. Subprime was most definitely being securitized back in the late 90s in the form of home equity loans. Do you remember the 125 loan? (125% of your home equity you could borrow). Many subprime homeowners were defaulting on those too. Ever heard of First Plus Financial? My ex-girlfriend used to crunch the default numbers for their securitized assets. It was all subprime all the time, and it was 1997-99...hmmm Clinton was president.

But it is true that the credit quality embedded within the CDOs really took a dive during the Bush administration, but again, it was moving in that direction even when Clinton was president.

I'm not saying Bush didn't accelerate the crisis, I am saying the culture of complex financial instruments which led to the crisis was already in place. And the type of greed and fraud that we saw during Bush's years was just a more intense continuation of what was started back in the 90s.

I'm not a Bush fan either ... but he's not the only one to blame.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,474,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
CDO's are legitimate as long as the underlying mortgages are sound - all that went out the window with the no-down, no-doc loans doled out under the Bush watch (or non-watch).
uhm,,again you are pointing to the wrong president...try clinton

1995 Pres. Clinton (through his chief of HUD (Henry Cisneros and 1999 under his second chief andrew coumo)) eased the rules on obtaining mortgages allowing more 'exotic' mortgages and 'no-doc/low doc' mortgages-----the consequence ......housing SKYROCKETED causing low inventories causing a 'not normal' increase in home prices, sellers got greedy, buyers got even greedier (looking to PROFIT in a skyrocketing market by flipping) and bought THINKING that prices would still increase and their ADJUSTABLE mortgage would pay it self off in MINIMUMAL years...EVEN THOUGH THESE INCREASES IN HOME VALUES WERE TOTALLY UNHEARD OF, AND MORTGAGE RATES WERE AT 40 YEAR LOWS( what did they think an adjustable mortgage gotten at 40 year lows would do in the term(3 months-3years) when it adjusted...of course it would go up, their CONTRACT even said after the term it would be 6% PLUS PRIME)))
For many potential homebuyers, the lack of cash available to accumulate the required downpayment and closing costs is the major impediment to purchasing a home. Other households do not have sufficient available income to to make the monthly payments on mortgages financed at market interest rates for standard loan terms. Financing strategies, fueled by the creativity and resources of the private and public sectors, should address both of these financial barriers to homeownership."
The above is the start of the mortgage meltdon: Clinton's National Homeownership Strategy

President Clinton, with the blessing of Democrats in Congress, advanced an agenda which they called, The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream. (Do a Web search.) In short, it encouraged mortgage lenders to loosen-up their requirements for those seeking mortgages, thus making home ownership available to those who otherwise wouldn't qualify - in other words, for those who couldn't afford it.

The government, as a result, relaxed requirements for the federal guarantee on those mortgages: lowered income to payment ratio, relaxed income verification, reduced (or eliminated) down payments, etc. Mortgage lenders, as ones who issued those government backed loans, were encouraged - and directed - to follow suit. (I say directed to follow suit because those lenders had to follow government rules if they wanted to continue to be able to issue FHA loans.)

Fast forward to 2000: The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream, is a "..... public-private partnership working to dramatically increase homeownership opportunity in America. Under the directive of President Clinton, the Partnership was formed in 1995 by nearly 60 national organizations that care about homeownership. Today, the Partnership consists of 66 members representing lenders, real estate professionals, home builders, nonprofit housing providers, and federal, state and local governments.

HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo said: "The good news as we mark National Homeownership Week is that homeownership in America is at record levels. But the bad news we face is that many of HUD's homeownership and other programs are under attack by some members of Congress. The success of our homeownership initiatives proves that HUD in combination with local organizations can further our goal of even more homeownership and fulfill our commitment to making this the blueprint for for other models."

The immediate results: As a result of a huge increase in demand against a limited supply, home prices (and values) rose dramatically. In addition to the injection of even more home buyers (unqualified home buyers) into the market, many people used those increases in their home values to refinance other debt into the more attractive (tax deductable) mortgage debt. Moreover, mortgages are bought and sold on the open market, as they always have been. Historically, behind Treasury Bills, Mortgages were among the safest of all investments to buy. As a result, many investment banks bought those mortgages (government-backed mortgages, by the way).

The eventual (and inevitable?) repercussions: People began defaulting on mortgages they couldn't afford in the first place. Banks and Mortgage lenders were foreclosing at record levels. (Foreclosures are always a lose-lose proposition for both the buyer and the lender.) Home values began to plummet. Mortgage investments were losing value.


The government, is now in the process of bailing-out mortgage lenders who made bad loans to people who couldn't afford them in the first place. Moreover, investment bankers, who are also facing a huge crisis - because of the defaults on the mortgages they purchased - are also being discussed as possible government bail-out candidates. (Can you say 401(k) accounts?)
----------------------------

The New York Times
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending
By STEVEN A. HOLMES
Published: Thursday, September 30, 1999

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.
Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer.
In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the 1990's. The number of mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 87.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who got mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent.

In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last year, 44 percent of the loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups.

----------------------

notice the date of the NYT article...1999...BEFORE bush
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,474,193 times
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I guess you just dont understand economics,,which have CYCLES of 6-12 years

here is some thing from late 2000


Housing in the New Millennium: A Home Without Equity is Just a Rental with Debt

Joshua Rosner
Graham Fisher & Co.


November 29, 2000



Abstract:
This report assesses the prospects of the U.S. housing/mortgage sector over the next several years. Based on our analysis, we believe there are elements in place for the housing sector to continue to experience growth well above GDP. However, we believe there are risks that can materially distort the growth prospects of the sector. Specifically, it appears that a large portion of the housing sector's growth in the 1990's came from the easing of the credit underwriting process. Such easing includes:

* The drastic reduction of minimum down payment levels from 20% to 0%
* A focused effort to target the "low income" borrower
* The reduction in private mortgage insurance requirements on high loan to value mortgages
* The increasing use of software to streamline the origination process and modify/recast delinquent loans in order to keep them classified as "current"
* Changes in the appraisal process which has led to widespread overappraisal/over-valuation problems

If these trends remain in place, it is likely that the home purchase boom of the past decade will continue unabated. Despite the increasingly more difficult economic environment, it may be possible for lenders to further ease credit standards and more fully exploit less penetrated markets. Recently targeted populations that have historically been denied homeownership opportunities have offered the mortgage industry novel hurdles to overcome. Industry participants in combination with eased regulatory standards and the support of the GSEs (Government Sponsored Enterprises) have overcome many of them.

If there is an economic disruption that causes a marked rise in unemployment, the negative impact on the housing market could be quite large. These impacts come in several forms. They include a reduction in the demand for homeownership, a decline in real estate prices and increased foreclosure expenses.

These impacts would be exacerbated by the increasing debt burden of the U.S. consumer and the reduction of home equity available in the home. Although we have yet to see any materially negative consequences of the relaxation of credit standards, we believe the risk of credit relaxation and leverage can't be ignored. Importantly, a relatively new method of loan forgiveness can temporarily alter the perception of credit health in the housing sector. In an effort to keep homeowners in the home and reduce foreclosure expenses, holders of mortgage assets are currently recasting or modifying troubled loans. Such policy initiatives may for a time distort the relevancy of delinquency and foreclosure statistics. However, a protracted housing slowdown could eventually cause modifications to become uneconomic and, thus, credit quality statistics would likely become relevant once again. The virtuous circle of increasing homeownership due to greater leverage has the potential to become a vicious cycle of lower home prices due to an accelerating rate of foreclosures.


..................
so I guess you think Bush did this....funny how people were talking about it BEFORE bush even was elected.
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