Rep Alyson Grayson Roll Calls the Names of The Dead from Lack of Insurance.. Reps try to shut him up (healthcare, regular)

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Somewhere along the line you are getting a line because hospitals NEVER provide $200,000 worth of care without getting preauthorization for proceedures for those with insurance.

I dont care that they filed bankruptcy, they could have filed bankruptcy and kept the home just getting rid of the medical bills, why didnt they? Again, your taking a line and repeating it as its the truth and its not. They didnt keep the home because they COULDNT AFFORD TO.. The medical bills might have caused a bankruptcy but giving up the home is due to the medical illness causing a lack of income.

Nope, I'd rather you not receive care if you go without insurance, but you wont want to hear that..

Well. . since goign without insurance is not really a choice.. that is a pretty stupid statement you just made. And shows clearly you do not grasp why people are uninsured.

So why not nationalize the hospitals? Woops, there goes the next idea. What does that have to do with the topic? Credit card companies lose probably a similar amount, should we nationalize credit cards and give everyone an "allotment" to use? Dam, I'm just lining up these ideas for socalist supporters..

I love it... comparing credit cards to health care.. similar to BMW's and health care..LOL.. yeah.. okay

I could care less that the hospitals lose money.. if it didn't have such a negative affect on the rest of us.. AND OUR OVERALL ABILITY TO ACCESS LIFESAVING MEDICAL TREATMENT.

What happens if credit cards lose money. They charge more in fees, etc .. whcih is what we are seeing now.

Difference is.. people aren't dying from beign denied a credit card or not being able to access credit cards as a result of the loss and the consequences to other consumers for that loss...

But you go ahead.. keep comparing life saving medical treatment to superficial things like Credit cards and BMw's.. you are only making your argument look more ridiculous.

NEWS FLASH, I already PAY for someone elses healthcare.. its called those I LIVE WITH.. I also contribute to my parents montly budget because their healthcare costs are killing them.. (dad has a VERY rare disease that requires infusions monthly that cost $30K).. Now you want me to pay FOR YOU? Sorry, I already contribute to enough people, and lets not even discuss that I'd consider pulling your plug if you couldnt pay for the costs to pay for the electric bill to keep the heart pump going. Yes, I'm that heartless, but if you fail to plan thats your failure, not mine.

Great.. excellent for you. Thank your lucky stars that your hard work is actually allowing you to be able to do that. Many others work hard and can't do that.... Your heartless because you care only about those within your context.. and if YOUR okay, to hell with everyone else right? Yeah.. that's REAL compassion. It's easy to be compassionate for those you love, it's easy to do those things.. harder to have empathy and compassion for others you don't know.

AGain.. your life could change on a dime and somethign cuold happen that wuold leave you unable to do all those things you do for your loved ones.. then where would they be? I suppose then you'd feel that they deserved to die?

Look above.. you might understand that you are being lied to. Someone with insurance knows INSTANTLY if their prescription drugs are covered or not, pharmacies dont let them out the door without them being paid for. If you expect me to believe that someone received $200K worth of care with a "denied" being the outcome then you must take me for a fool.. I can assure you that if your buying the lies being told to you, I'm not the one thats the fool here..

YOU are the fool. Tehy gave treatment, they sent in the payments.. and it CAN be deniedAFER the point of care if the insurance company tries to find an excuse to do such a thing. It happens.. don't believe me, fine. But I have experience with it and I've seen it first hand.. YOU then are being lied to.

Since when has someones "empathy" been a requirement to be an american? The fact that YOU need care because you let YOUR policy lapse, and now expect OTHERS to pay YOUR bills, doesnt bring tears to my eyes. (I believe this was you, and I apologize if it wasnt).

First off being empathetic is a requirement for being a good human being.. becaues that's what we ALL are regardless of where we are from. But I wouldn'te expect YOU to understand that.. THAT is apparent

AS for my insurance lapse.. you've read my story .. I didn't LET it lapse and certainly NOT on purpose. BTW.. I am not expecting ANYONE to pay my bills. I pay for my own meds , however, should an illness or a problem with my condition arise and I am hospitalized for an emergency.. yup, I will expect that I SHOULD get treatment.. and if I end up getting that emergent treatment AND the bills are more than I can bear I would haev NO CHOICE but to file bankruptcy.

I guess that's the way you people like it rather than actually passing reform that allows me to pay into the same system you do..

and many others would like to be "responsible" and have insurance, but the ****ed up system you seem so intent on defending actually pushes them into those circumstances.

These uninsured people are NOT lazy good for nothings. They aer workign families... the ones you would call "lazy" .. get their medical care for free..it's called medicaid.

Many people that end up uninsured have jobs just like you, had coverage provided them by their employer or perhaps the good income their biz was making.. but life can flip on a dime and in an instant you can lose it all..or lose a lot of it pushing you into a situation you seem to foolishly believe you are above.. LOL

My family and the lawyers who drew up the documents are very familiar with my wishes. YES PULL THE PLUG..

Sucks to be them. There are millions of people who bought properties at the top of the market, those who start businesses and fail, (yes, even I've started several of these), those who have their electric, gas, water shut off because they cant pay the bills. Should we nationalize gas companies, electric companies, water companies, should the government own all property and then "rent" to the citizens, or should we support communism because peoples businesses fail? Seriously, why do I care about your crying for "free crap" when others are in far greater need?

Again.. NONE of these equals death.. not able to access heatlh care does.. but keep going.

BTW.. health care reform is NOT about getting anything for FREE.. but keep coming with that ridiculous argument too.. because it only makes you look foolish for keeping repeating something that is obviously absolutely false. REFORM is not abotu giving away FREE insurance. .THAT already exists with medicaid. It's about changinge the rules so that those of us shut out can actual.. PAY FOR OUR OWN INSURANCE and medical care.

I would sell everything I own to save the lives of my children, thankfully I dont need to make that choice because I am responsible and pay for their care. In fact I have already guaranteed my children will have care until they are 18, and my gf will have it forever, even after they pull the plug on me.

LOL. you don't think those that were in that situation didn't do just that.. sell everything that they own..

Wow.. how arrogant to think that you are ABOVE curveballs life can hand you.

What if , at the endo f the day, you sell everything you own and strip yourself completely down to nothing adn it STILL isn't enough.. because that is what happens to many. They just don't roll over and let their loved ones die, but in the end, they could sell everything hey own and it STILL wouldn't be enough.

Why not, thats the argument you keep using. We shouldnt ignore the 45,000 people that "die" from healthcare, so why should we ignore the 15,000,00 a year who die from starvation? Personally, I'd much rather save the 15,000,000, but I guess you want to be greedy and think you are more important than those people. I guess because you dont have to look at them suffer daily then they dont count. That is the argument you are trying to use on me right?

Yeah.. okay keep regurgitating that over and over.. than go up and read what I said.. I said why can't we do both.. I said we ALREADY work on trying to cure hunger and disease for other nations and I think we should keep on doing it. As a matter of fact I've said we need to dedicate MORE resources to just those things INCLUDING the health care issue in the U.S..

But that's okay.. you keep reading what you THINK i said.. when it's clear to anyone that I never said we shoudn't worry about 15M people

keep deflecting..it's not really helping your argument one bit.

We helped to rebuild their hospitals, but I guess that will be the next thing you want done here. I'm well aware that the US helps hunger starving parts of the world, we also help the poor without healthcare here in america.. whats your point? $1,000,000,000,000 will feed a lot of poor dying Africans right? I guess though the americans are more important because we arent so poor

Actually if you listen to Obama we are not "bailing out billionaires", we are investing in our future. These individuals though did get a bailout because without their companies in existance the dollar would have tanked in value and we would have received hyper inflation. You think the economy is bad now, let our banking industry collapse and see what happens, healthcare costs would have been the least of your worries. (and yes, the WHOLE industry was collapsing).

[/quote]

Your arguments are pathetic, and weak.. keep talking. your only proving my points..

Pathetic reflections, lack of any compassion empathy.. So sad that you think so little of your fellow citizens.... Americans, Africans.. all.. we are ALL human beings..

As for the last statement about Obama.. I don't agree iwth the bailouts, I don't agree with the War.. I can stand behind my president even though I don't agree with EVERYTHING he does.. so much for the "Obama worship" your ilk like to deflect to in any argument I think all the money we use for wars, weapons, bailing out Wall Street Tycoons and big business should be used to help other human beings.. Americans, African.. whatever alike.

Have a nice night. I'll pray for you that your arrogance on how "safe" you seem to think you are from life curve balls doesnt' come back to bite you on the ass. I wonder how many who fall have felt so "secure" about where they stand, only to realize differentlly.. and those that they look down on then they soon find out they were no better.

Your posts I always read from you just sadden me. Perhaps I'm going to finally have to put someone on my ignore list. I can't waste anymore energy on someone who can be so callous in his positions.

[01Snake]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Your posts I always read from you just sadden me. Perhaps I'm going to finally have to put someone on my ignore list. I can't waste anymore energy on someone who can be so callous in his positions.

Oh nooooooo! Not the ignore list!

[Wapasha]

Originally Posted by Smash255

1/2 of 1% according to the 2005 CBO report, so instead of someone paying $1,000 a month they would pay $995. As far as opening up coverage across state lines it really wouldn't lower the costs because it wouldn't cover crap.

You can buy that load of crap if you want. But if a health care plan in California costs $6,000 a year, the exact same plan may only cost $1,000 in Kentucky. Its called competition, and it will bring costs down.

Already, more than 40 percent of HSAs sold are to individuals who were previously uninsured. A bill before Congress, the Health Care Choice Act (H.R. 2355), which has been pending for more than two years, would create a more competitive individual health insurance market by allowing insurers to cross state lines to sell health policies, instead of limiting consumers to the policies approved by their home states' insurance commissioners, as is done now. The Congressional Budget Office estimates the Health Care Choice Act would increase federal revenues by $12.6 billion between 2007 and 2015 by lowering the cost of insurance and increasing take-home pay

Medicare Rx Costs Below Estimates, Thanks to Private-Sector Competition - by Ronald E. Bachman - Health Care News

The above link was all I could find in the five minutes i had available to respond. Try looking around. Google: "cross state lines" "health insurance" costs savings See what you can find

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Wapasha

You can buy that load of crap if you want. But if a health care plan in California costs $6,000 a year, the exact same plan may only cost $1,000 in Kentucky. Its called competition, and it will bring costs down.



The above link was all I could find in the five minutes i had available to respond. Try looking around. Google: "cross state lines" "health insurance" costs savings See what you can find

I do believe insurance should be state wide. But here is the thin. Laws need to be uniform across the nation otherwise it's a mess of insurance rules in each state being different that would leaf to more admin paperwork no?

While the house bill is good and very comprehensive it is missing a few things like tort reform and the state line things. I never really thought tort would make the bill because are notist politicians lawyers? I do acknowledge that while I now a democrat each party is equally guilty of self interest

[eastwesteastagain]

Originally Posted by pghquest

The ONLY think you are providing is the Democratic excuse that they passed out to the public to explain their failures.

Sorry but I heard the lies from them, I dont need it repeated from you. Repeating a lie 101 times doesnt make it true..

Interesting, as I thought I had come up with my opinion all by my lonesome.

Someone asked a question, I provided a potential answer. If you think it's a lie, well bully for you. Don't take your partisan BS out on me, please. Not everyone who disagrees with you is simply parroting party lines.

[PurpleLove08]

Selling insurance across state lines will save about 5 percent off the average plan.

What will end up happening is that people think they are getting the same kind of health plan as their fellow citizens in their state when really they are getting a bare bones plan.

If Michelle Bachman is calling for insurance to be sold across state lines, that pretty much confirms it's a stupid idea.

Following a pair of Supreme Court decisions which deregulated the banking industry, credit card companies relocated to states with no interest rate caps and charged “what they wanted” to borrowers in states with interest rate limits. McCain’s reform takes a similar tact. He would allow health insurers to operate across state lines “without complying with the laws in the state in which they operate,” and permit insurance plans from out-of-state to lure away healthier patients.
As Gordon points out, insurance companies “would have little incentive to continue doing business” under certain state rules which “require that companies issue coverage to all new customers and not set higher rates for people who are already sick”:

[Under legislation that McCain supports], insurers wouldn’t even need to pick up and move their operations; it would be enough to file some paperwork with a state insurance commissioner and pay that state’s relevant taxes…An insurer operating under Arizona law would be able to offer healthy New Yorkers a cheaper policy than an insurer working under New York law that has to price policies the same for everyone.

If the deregulated environment allows credit card companies to “use pricing practices, like teaser rates, to attract cash-strapped families and then…double or triple those rates without notice,” Gordon argues that McCain’s approach to deregulating the health insurance industry would similarly permit insurance companies to deny coverage to Americans with pre-existing conditions and “improve their own profits by offering targeted policies to people with the fewest health expenses”:

As with the history of credit cards, it’s Robin Hood in reverse. Apart from the obvious injustice, this approach could add to spiraling health costs. The sickest 10 percent of Americans are already responsible for 70 percent of the nation’s health expenses. When more such Americans go uninsured, skip checkups, and land in the emergency room, they end up costing taxpayers more.

Pre-existing conditions are not confined to chronic diseases. In fact, some individual insurance companies do not count a C-section as a pre-existing condition, and policies differ based on state laws and regulations. Under McCain’s proposal to free insurance companies from state regulations, insurers that continue to extend coverage to moms who have had a C-section would quickly find themselves at a competitive disadvantage with insurers that provide the least protection to new moms.
Thus, McCain’s deregulation scheme, like past banking reforms, seeks to extend industry profits, not consumer protections.

Wonk Room » McCain’s Insurance Deregulation Scheme Promises A Downward Spiral In Health Care Coverage

[GregW]

If I stay employed or retire I have health insurance. If I am laid off I lose it. I do not like this situation. I believe we need Universal Health Care system, paid for by a progressive income tax, for everyone, employed or not. We do not need a greed driven private health insurance industry dedicated to denying coverage whenever possible despite the legality of their actions.

[florida.bob]

Originally Posted by GregW

If I stay employed or retire I have health insurance. If I am laid off I lose it. I do not like this situation. I believe we need Universal Health Care system, paid for by a progressive income tax, for everyone, employed or not. We do not need a greed driven private health insurance industry dedicated to denying coverage whenever possible despite the legality of their actions.

I agree with you. I truely feel that the ONLY part of Health care that should be profit driven, is research and development on procedures and drugs. As much as I hate the largely un-neccessary growing dependence on drugs, I certainly see the need for that development process.

[GregW]

I think the private sector should be the place new drugs are created so long as the companies do not abuse the patent system or the market. Replacing Prilosec with Nexium, which does the same function, is an example of abusing both. This sort of maneuvering to keep a mass market drug under the patent monopoly abuses the system by costing the customers countless millions and profiting the company far more than can be justified.

[PurpleLove08]

Originally Posted by GregW

I think the private sector should be the place new drugs are created so long as the companies do not abuse the patent system or the market. Replacing Prilosec with Nexium, which does the same function, is an example of abusing both. This sort of maneuvering to keep a mass market drug under the patent monopoly abuses the system by costing the customers countless millions and profiting the company far more than can be justified.

::Nods in agreement::