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Apology accepted. We lawyers have to have thick skins.
Background:
As a JAG, I often counseled with personnel who had not claimed CO status and did not want to go to the war zone (Vietnam, at the time); and in fact one of my fellow JAG officers was conflicted when he received the deployment orders. I and my fellow JAGs had some limited successes working behind the scenes in getting orders changed to keep a soldier out of a combat assignment (e.g., sometimes a chaplain of the client's faith needed an assistant); when that didn't work, and the client was willing to swallow some pride, there was the avenue of administrative separation, which worked a time or two.
Here's where I disagree with you:
Had Maj. Hasan been separated from the service when he began exhibiting his anti-Muslin-fighting-Muslim and/or Islamic fundamentalist convictions, the basic conflict would have been eliminated between the two persons he had become, namely, the Army officer originally sworn to uphold the Constitution and still proud to wear his uniform to prayer and the now fundamentalist Muslim [preaching, as it were, the Qu'ran re: punishment for a Muslim killing a Muslim].
Hasan took his faith seriously, and his statements in his official capacity evidenced that his faith was not compatible with the wars in Muslim lands. His statements and presentations were clear: a Muslim who followed the Qu'ran could not go to war against other Muslims.
Would he have followed the path of a radical Islamic martyr had he been separated from the service, or would he have followed his faith in some other manner--we can't be certain of the answer, but the probability of the path of the martyr certainly would have been lessened.
Is there a guarantee he as a civilian would not have bought a gun and shot folks at the entrance to Ft. Hood? Of course not. But the reasonable probability is that as a civilian, with his particular conflict eliminated, with the stresses of his Army psychiatriac duties eliminated, he would not have chosen violent terror.
*****
Now, my unsolicited opinion. Why didn't his supervisor/rating officer at Walter Reed ask Hasan if his words and presentations reflected Hasan's own faith and beliefs? Because that would have been as dangerous politically to the supervisor as asking him if he was gay. The supervisor followed the Army's CYA attitude--don't ask because PC and diversity reign and can adversely affect your career in an instant. (If nothing else, the Army is a CYA, polical bunch. I was a witness at two Dept. of the Army level investigations, and I have seen this in spades. I turned down an RA commission because I was sick of it and wanted to return to civilian life; of course, I encountered much of the same in a big law firm.)
That, in my opinion, is one reason the system did not work (another reason being Maj. Hasan's pride).
I don't agree with the idea promoted by others, "Political Correctness Is Suicide." I don't believe it's an either/or dilemma, although I believe the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of PC, and that imbalance needs to be addressed rationally and corrected.
Here's where I disagree with you:
Is there a guarantee he as a civilian would not have bought a gun and shot folks at the entrance to Ft. Hood? Of course not. But the reasonable probability is that as a civilian, with his particular conflict eliminated, with the stresses of his Army psychiatriac duties eliminated, he would not have chosen violent terror.
Point taken.
Quote:
Now, my unsolicited opinion. Why didn't his supervisor/rating officer at Walter Reed ask Hasan if his words and presentations reflected Hasan's own faith and beliefs? Because that would have been as dangerous politically to the supervisor as asking him if he was gay. The supervisor followed the Army's CYA attitude--don't ask because PC and diversity reign and can adversely affect your career in an instant.
Apparently, as subsequent stories are now revealing, even if Hasan had sought a discharge on religious grounds it would have been denied. According to what I am reading, this issue had little to do with political correctness and more to do with a extreme shortage of both medical staff and, get this, majors.
"Hasan was a military psychiatrist toiling in an overburdened, desperate Army healthcare system that will hold onto any warm body with a medical degree. Remember the Walter Reed scandal? The horrific treatment of traumatic brain injury and PTSD that has gone on for years? Army medicine has been dropping the ball on these issues for a long time. Given that history, it's not hugely surprising they'd miss warning signs with Hasan and just let him go on being a doctor."
As for Hasan getting promoted to major, the Washington Post Thursday suggested a more likely scenario than political correctness. They need more bodies. The Army is short 2,000 majors and the dearth is particularly acute in Army medicine. As the Post put it, “virtually all Army captains are being promoted to major.”
Now, my unsolicited opinion. Why didn't his supervisor/rating officer at Walter Reed ask Hasan if his words and presentations reflected Hasan's own faith and beliefs? Because that would have been as dangerous politically to the supervisor as asking him if he was gay. The supervisor followed the Army's CYA attitude--don't ask because PC and diversity reign and can adversely affect your career in an instant. (If nothing else, the Army is a CYA, polical bunch. I was a witness at two Dept. of the Army level investigations, and I have seen this in spades. I turned down an RA commission because I was sick of it and wanted to return to civilian life; of course, I encountered much of the same in a big law firm.)
I don' know - It seems there were many along the way who could just have said to him, "Hey, don't do anything crazy".
His terrorist act could have been prevented by discharging him from the army. He showed early signs of stress and after asking, he should have been released immediately. If he didn't commit such act at home, he could have done even more damage there after been deployed. Why would the army want such individual in Afghanistan?
As a civilian his stress may have been redirected in another direction.
Seriously, we should remove all Muslims from the military, since pretty much the only threat in this world right now is from Islamic extremists. I understand we need arabic interpreters and its "not constitutional" to ban people from joining the military by their beliefs. But come on, do you not see this as an obvious problem?
I think people really need to stop thinking everyone is the same and start realizing people are different, and you can't expect people of one culture to be happy about going over and killing people of their same culture. It isn't like the USA is a muslim country, nor did we have a good reason for even being in these wars.
If I was Hasan I probably would have done the same thing. We may have 5,000 american deaths, but many believe the numbers of muslim deaths caused be the war on terror could be well over a million. Do you not think if you were a devout Christian and the United States was an overwhelming Muslim country that you wouldn't feel great hatred if your Christian brothers were getting slaughtered like the muslims are, and they were going to send you there to do the same?
Use some common sense people. As long as people identify themselves as different, then people are different. The only way we can ever see everyone else as being like us, and expect them to be like us, is if they are like us.
That includes culture, appearance, and religion. Do you not think if we went to war with Mexico that the millions of Mexicans already here wouldn't turn against us?
Last edited by Redshadowz; 11-16-2009 at 10:38 PM..
Before the good ole boys think its cool to discriminate upon and harrass anyone who is Muslim, you might want to consider the events that took place.
Dr. Hassan was an American born and raised in the good ole South of Virginia and not in some ethnic enclave in NYC. He was educated in the United States. He went to American high schools alongside Joe and Mary Smith. He was taught the Pledge of Allegiance just like you. He celebrated the 4th of July just like you. His neighbors reported that he wasn't an extremist. He CHOSE to enter the military, he didn't have to. He could have taken out loans like most medical students and would have made more money and had a better lifestyle going that route but he obviously felt some duty to this country otherwise he wouldn't have entered the military.
Dr. Hassan's cousin and other family members reported that he suffered discrimination and anti-Muslim remarks in the military. That obviously led to a lot of anger in this individual. It's obvious something switched and he changed his outlook and wanted out of the military.
I'm not arguing that what he did was justified. Regardless of how one is treated, there is no excuse or justification to do what he did. He is obviously a sick individual. Unfortunately, not everyone who is a victim of prejudice and discrimination is strong enough and has enough sense and sanity to forgive and ignore those attitudes.
People say the war in Iraq doesn't lead to terrorists. They say this type of racism and discrimination doesn't lead to terrorism. Maybe that isn't the case. Perhaps, we need to take a different approach and not engage in activities that lead to hate and bitterness. I wonder if this event would have ever taken place if some of his fellow soldiers didn't discriminate against their fellow soldier.
Oh for God sake????!!! Most every act like this could have been avoided, but hind sight is better than 20/20...This jerk and the war on Iraq are only related because of the Muslem connection. His being affected by prejudice probably had little to do with what he did.
May, I add, all of us are affected by prejudice in one way or another. Maybe because of a family member, maybe it is weight, color, religion, political affiliation, lack of money, whatever...
If his actions were remotely related to his fellow soldiers I would guess it was his attitude more than theirs...
His terrorist act could have been prevented by discharging him from the army. He showed early signs of stress and after asking, he should have been released immediately. If he didn't commit such act at home, he could have done even more damage there after been deployed. Why would the army want such individual in Afghanistan? As a civilian his stress may have been redirected in another direction.
His stress may have been redirected in another direction? Do you really think that? This wasn't a matter of "stress". This was a matter of belief that he had to kill infidels. Had he been discharged, he would have gone on to other similar acts. These radicals are driven by the command in the Koran to kill all infidels.
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