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When the Americans "worry",it is about their 2500 sqft ,4(real) bd,2.5 ba, 2 car garage house,
with pool & garden...
When the Euros "worry",it is about their 1000 sqft apt,3(small) bd,1.5 ba,1 car parking space,
with handshake views of the apt across the street...
I'll take the Amer worries anytime...
Last edited by harrycrat; 11-08-2009 at 11:58 AM..
When the Americans "worry",it is about their 2500 sqft ,4(real) bd,2.5 ba, 2 car garage house,
with pool & garden...
When the Euros "worry",it is about their 1000 sqft apt,3(small) bd,1.5 ba,1 car parking space,
with views of the apt across the street...
I'll take tha Amer worries anytime...
That's the type of thinking that has caused Americans to become fat and gluttonous. The new economy will force us to look at need vs want.
Can I ask your age and where you went to school? Back when I was at a state university, school cost $5-7k now it's $13-15k. Times have changed. I graduated from college in 1995 and tuition has more than doubled since then. Unfortunately income has not. I don't know how today's student can make enough money to pay cash for college. Private college tuition in our area is $30+k.
Most that I know can't. I graduate from college in 2007, and I can say that most people I know have loans. The people I know without loans had their parents paying for their education. Additionally, those of us with loans worked. Seriously. All of my friends in college (except one) worked. I personally worked every semester in school in addition to receiving free room and board working as an RA. I essentially worked full-time, and I still graduated with loans. College now is simply not cheap, and my story is not at all uncommon.
When the Americans "worry",it is about their 2500 sqft ,4(real) bd,2.5 ba, 2 car garage house,
with pool & garden...
When the Euros "worry",it is about their 1000 sqft apt,3(small) bd,1.5 ba,1 car parking space,
with handshake views of the apt across the street...
I'll take the Amer worries anytime...
And when the majority of the rest of the world worries, it's about their next meal or their leaking roof...etc.
Our worries are trivial in comparison
I'll say it. I don't enjoy my life. I spend all my time studying to get a degree and the loans will be so bad that I will be working 40-60 hours a week for probably the next 10 years, but I didn't see any other option to make a decent living in this country that I felt I could do well and maybe have a chance of living where I want (I want to move back to Michigan, so the medical field is one of the few options I have). I was a teacher for two years but I hated moving away from my family and friends for a job to an area of the country I didn't like.
My father, 2 years before retirement is being downsized so some company a thousand miles away can increase their profits. My best friend is an engineer at a large company and bought his house in 2006. He is now worried about getting downsized or relocated. The only real reason he hasn't been let go is he is willing to quietly do the jobs that he hates (and everyone else hates).
We're all too busy working to get by to publicly say how miserable we are, but there are lots of us out here that are unhappy, and the lack of stability is a big problem.
Happiness may be a choice. But with ANY choice, some options are easier than others and a lot of us are too exhausted from meaningless ungrateful jobs to try to be happy or do anything we enjoy.
That's unfortunate what is happening to you and with many other young people getting an education with massive debt.
Free college education is part of the security net you'd be enjoying in Europe, all paid by high taxes. It's a trade off.
America's system is no better or worse...just different depending on what your goal is. Accumulation of material wealth....or enjoy the simplicities of life? In other words, are we working harder and not smarter? Or, harder, but still being unhappy?
(And don't anyone say how do I know American's aren't enjoying themselves....maybe some are, most aren't! How many people are popping "happy" pills so they can function and get thru the day?)
I've lived in both US and Europe. Here's my observation:
America is a more suitable place for you to live IF you are entrepreneurial, resourceful, workaholic, goal-oriented, success-driven, ambitious, optimistic, self-motivated, and can afford to pay for your own health insurance if you don't have one. You identify with what you do for a living, and you live to work. You enjoy time off, but you justify time off and playing hard because you've WORKED HARD and deserve it. Time off is a reward for your hard work. You believe in the WORK ETHIC and you are proud of your accomplishments and that is a part of WHO YOU ARE. Every man is for himself, you believe in that, and you help yourself as God helps those who help themselves. You don't want more taxes because you work extremely hard for your money and you don't believe that you should be forced to help your fellow man by way of taxes.
Europe is more suitable for you IF you want to smell the roses on the way, want quality time with family and friends, enjoy high culture (literature, drama, music, art, architecture), are intrigued by history, enjoy taking time to meet new people simply for the sake of having a new conversation, and these things are a PRIORITY to work because work does not identify you, it's only a means to an end, i.e. you WORK in order to live and enjoy your life. You do not live to work. You pay high taxes and you dislike it, but weighing in the free health care and other govt programs such as senior pensions, you understand that is how it is structured and accept it, grudgingly or not. That is another reason why you justify your goal of enjoying life. Might as well!
I just think both societies are suitable DEPENDING ON YOUR PERSONALITY and INTERESTS.
What do you think?
Capitalism is about competition. We compete in school for grades. We compete to get into the best colleges and universities. We compete for jobs and we compete on the job. Capitalism is best suited for people who are able to successfully compete.
Those who cannot compete because they lack the mental capacity, ability, inclination or initiative are better suited for socialism. A socialist society will lose people who have the ability to do much better in a capitalistic society. A socialist society will never lose its citizens who, for whatever reason, cannot or will not compete.
Socialism will not only lose many of its productive citizens and retain all of its non-productive citizens but will also rob any 'fence sitters' of initiative. Why bother to compete if the standard of living will not substantially improve. If it works at all, socialism will reduce a countries productivity, wealth, technology and standard of living.
aqua0, I agree with you that there's more time for the average European to enjoy life than for the average American. It's funny to me that you're being attacked for just stating that opinion. Perhaps they're attacking you because they know you're right. They're angry and bitter about it.
The Human Development Index ranks 12 countries ahead of the U.S. in life expectancy, literacy rates, and purchasing power. Most of them are European countries:
Some Americans may sneer at Europeans and call them socialists, but I doubt the Europeans care too much. Most of them probably just shake their heads in amusement at the silly Americans.
Can I ask your age and where you went to school? Back when I was at a state university, school cost $5-7k now it's $13-15k. Times have changed. I graduated from college in 1995 and tuition has more than doubled since then. Unfortunately income has not. I don't know how today's student can make enough money to pay cash for college. Private college tuition in our area is $30+k.
I'm 40. I went to a state school in Ohio. I graduated in 1998. It cost about 4 grand a semester then. With books and living expenses and all that calculated in. I lived by myself which made it more expensive than if I had had a roommate.
I also received GI Bill money from serving in the Army and tuition assistance from the National Guard.
And I had 2 jobs on campus.
I'm tired of hearing people compalin about student loans. Thats all.
They knew how much they were borrowing when they signed the loan papars. Apparently, it was worth it to them at the time. They shouldn't then turn around and complain when it's time to pay them back. It's like running up a credit card and acting surprised when it's time to pay the bill.
I saw something the other day that the average student that finishes school in debt owes $20,000. Not a big deal if you ask me. Get a used car for a few years intead of a new one. Get a 500 dollar a month apartment instead of a 600. Get basic cable instead of HBO and NFL Sunday Ticket.
Hardly a sacrifice if you ask me. I think most people get out of school and think thay they should have 2 new cars and a 4 bedroom house in the suburbs right away. It doesn't work that way. For most people anyway. Then they act like they've been victimized or something when the first student loan bill shows up.
Last edited by NorthPoleMarathoner; 11-09-2009 at 04:54 AM..
Capitalism is about competition. We compete in school for grades. We compete to get into the best colleges and universities. We compete for jobs and we compete on the job. Capitalism is best suited for people who are able to successfully compete.
Those who cannot compete because they lack the mental capacity, ability, inclination or initiative are better suited for socialism. A socialist society will lose people who have the ability to do much better in a capitalistic society. A socialist society will never lose its citizens who, for whatever reason, cannot or will not compete.
Socialism will not only lose many of its productive citizens and retain all of its non-productive citizens but will also rob any 'fence sitters' of initiative. Why bother to compete if the standard of living will not substantially improve. If it works at all, socialism will reduce a countries productivity, wealth, technology and standard of living.
- Reel
Banksters and Wall Street types are already leaving the United States. Mostly to Singapore.
I expect more of this if the government continues it's current policies.
I would also expect more and more manufacturing to leave if cap and trade is passed. Lots of farmers will be forced out of business if that passes too.
I'm in a medical program and its cohorted. You can't really take time off and reenter. Plus its not like an undergrad situation where theres only 12-16 hours of class time. I'm in a lecture hall or lab 30 hours per week, then I have to study all the material. Not a lot of time for jobs. I did have 3 jobs in undergrad. Theres no time for that now.
I know plenty of people with no college degrees either. They're all athletes or nearing retirement though. Times change and requirements to even get interviews change.
I think a high salary has more to do with connections and who you know and luck than motivation.
But you knew that when you signed up for the program. At the time it was worth it to you or you would not have done it. So you shouldn't complain about it now. That's all I'm saying.
Personally, I'm glad college is expensive. It cuts down on the number of people that have degrees. This makes my degree more valuable to people and means I can ask for better compensation. I always hear politicians say they want to make college affordable to everyone. Why would we want that. If everone has a degree the degree becomes less valuable.
You knew all this stuff about loans and expense before you joined this program. At the time you decided that it was worth it to you. It still is or you wouldn't be doing it. You shouldn't then turn around and complain about it.
And high salary doesn't have to with connections or luck. That stuff may open a few doors for you, but that's about it. People don't pay you high salary unless you do a good job and make them money. If you aren't a benefit to a company more than likely you get canned. Doesn't matter what connections you have. Unless you work in Washington. Then you awarded for incompetence.
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