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Yes, Im sure you and every other libertarian from Ron Paul to the CATO institute will swear up and down (now that hes out of office) how much you hated Bush.
But I ask you, where were the protests? Where were the votes against the Patriot Act and the War?
The answer is = The same place you most likely where, being silent and following Bush's lead.
Lets not all pretend no one can remember anythign between 2002 and 2008. Try and search for 'libertarian protest against Bush' or 'Libertarian Tea Party rally against Bush'. YOu wont find anything significant, if anything at all.
The Social Left were the only groups at the helm opposing the liberty reductions of the Bush era. Im sure some libertarians quietly spoke about how they 'disagreed', but considering he took more liberties than anything Obama has actually done so far, and Obama is pretty much relentlessly picketed and Bush was supported, you do not see the double standard there?
How many libertarians vote R and how many vote I? According to the polls, only 20% of Americans consider themselves Republicans, and of the additional 27% that consider themselves independant (which Libertarians are the largest group), less than 1% of all americans actually voted 'libertarian' in the 08,09, even 06 elections.
Do the math. Libertarian is nothing more than a misnomer for 'closeted Republican'.
So clueless and ignorant not even worth a response.
Don't get the term Libertarian mixed up with conservative Republicans who are using it as a buzz word, because conservative republican isn't popular.
Sarah Palin is not a libertarian.
I am, I hated what Bush did to personal liberty, and I was extremely vocal on what kind of mistake Iraq was.
Exactly. Libertarians have nothing in common with the religious right or Nation builders. Yet the conservatives/ neocons/ GOP are stealing the word for their anti Obama agenda. Maybe next time the OP goes off on some baseless rant they will educate themselves first.
Yes, Im sure you and every other libertarian from Ron Paul to the CATO institute will swear up and down (now that hes out of office) how much you hated Bush.
But I ask you, where were the protests? Where were the votes against the Patriot Act and the War?
The answer is = The same place you most likely where, being silent and following Bush's lead.
Lets not all pretend no one can remember anythign between 2002 and 2008. Try and search for 'libertarian protest against Bush' or 'Libertarian Tea Party rally against Bush'. YOu wont find anything significant, if anything at all.
The Social Left were the only groups at the helm opposing the liberty reductions of the Bush era. Im sure some libertarians quietly spoke about how they 'disagreed', but considering he took more liberties than anything Obama has actually done so far, and Obama is pretty much relentlessly picketed and Bush was supported, you do not see the double standard there?
How many libertarians vote R and how many vote I? According to the polls, only 20% of Americans consider themselves Republicans, and of the additional 27% that consider themselves independant (which Libertarians are the largest group), less than 1% of all americans actually voted 'libertarian' in the 08,09, even 06 elections.
Do the math. Libertarian is nothing more than a misnomer for 'closeted Republican'.
Ron Paul was not a Bush lover or a lover of the many things Bush stood for. And many conservatives did not love Bush. I think you need to get this straight in your mind.
Yes, few vote libertarian because right now it is a wasted vote. As for the 20%, you throw that figure around all the time, but you forget how many consider themselves conservative.
You obviously don't actually pay attention to the libertarian movement. I was employed by a libertarian organization from the late 90s through the early 00s and I ran in all the libertarian circles. Believe me they had approximately zero love for Bush nor were they silent when the Patriot Act was passed, when the Iraq war was launched, or when the USSC made bonehead rulings.
Moderator cut: rude
Then give me an example. Show me Im wrong rather than just saying "I dont like what you are saying, youre wrong!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanhouse
So clueless and ignorant not even worth a response.
Thats the equivalent of saying "I cant refute anything you just said so Ill just retaliate with an ad hominem and hope others who also cant will jump in".
Not very 'libertarian' of an argument style, but VERY 'Neoconservative Republican'. To-may-to and to-mah-to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmita
Ron Paul was not a Bush lover or a lover of the many things Bush stood for. And many conservatives did not love Bush. I think you need to get this straight in your mind.
Yes, few vote libertarian because right now it is a wasted vote. As for the 20%, you throw that figure around all the time, but you forget how many consider themselves conservative.
Nita
Yes, but Im not asking about those who vote conservative. In fact, there is no 'vote conservative' in America. You dont vote wing, you vote party. And as you said, no one votes Libertarian. Libertarians vote Republican...because thats what they really are. And since no one is arguing states right, I assume you are conceding of course they are just hypocrites?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boompa
States Rights are usually just an excuse to deprive someone else of theirs. Anyone recall the States Rights Party and Lester Maddox
EXACTLY!
Same thing with Strom Thurmond and the dixiecrats of old, going back to the anti-roosevelters and even further back to the confederacy and slavers.
Then give me an example. Show me Im wrong rather than just saying "I dont like what you are saying, youre wrong!"
I don't have to. This is not some esoteric, unverifiable claim I'm making here. There are numerous libertarian sites on the web with archived materials, including the organization I worked for (archived at ISIL). Do your own homework if you're actually interested in becoming educated on the subject -- which I doubt you are.
It's not just that I don't like what you're saying, it's that you're factually wrong. I know because I witnessed it from the inside. You failed to pay attention on the outside, which is fine except when you make claims as if you had paid attention when it's obvious you hadn't.
Yes, but Im not asking about those who vote conservative. In fact, there is no 'vote conservative' in America. You dont vote wing, you vote party. And as you said, no one votes Libertarian. Libertarians vote Republican...because thats what they really are. And since no one is arguing states right, I assume you are conceding of course they are just hypocrites?
I doubt you even know an actual Libertarian. There is only 6,107 Libertarians in the entire state of North Carolina out of 6,077,253 registered voters. We don't care for Republicans or Democrats that's why we're registered as Libertarians. If I wanted to vote for Republicans then I would just register myself as a Republican.
I doubt you even know an actual Libertarian. There is only 6,107 Libertarians in the entire state of North Carolina out of 6,077,253 registered voters. We don't care for Republicans or Democrats that's why we're registered as Libertarians. If I wanted to vote for Republicans then I would just register myself as a Republican.
Odd, you say that there are 6 million registered Libertarians, yet less than 10,000 actually voted in the last 3 elections.
Unless you are registered to a party which does not vote, which is a silly concept.
By the way, I dont live in North Carolina.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drover
I don't have to. This is not some esoteric, unverifiable claim I'm making here. There are numerous libertarian sites on the web with archived materials, including the organization I worked for (archived at ISIL). Do your own homework if you're actually interested in becoming educated on the subject -- which I doubt you are.
In other words you cannot verify anything you are claiming.
Like I said, if there are so many of you (including Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Sean Hannity and Bill o Reilly) why is it
1. Almost no one votes libertarian in practically all state and national elections (though they do vote Republican)
2. There were NO vocal protests of the personal liberty violations during the Bush years from libertarians.
If I thought you were actually interested in a rational dialog rather than frothing at the mouth, I'd actually go through the trouble of providing examples. But since the effort would obviously be wasted on you, it's not worth the bother. For instance, when someone actually did provide a site with examples, you dismissed it as "one guy's blog" even though it hosts writings from several of the most well-known and influential libertarians (if that's not a contradiction in terms).
Everyone else who actually knows half as much as you think you do about the libertarian movement knows which one of is is right. And you clearly illustrate how little you know about the movement if you consider Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill Maher or Bill O'Reilly to be adherents.
If I thought you were actually interested in a rational dialog rather than frothing at the mouth, I'd actually go through the trouble of providing examples. But since the effort would obviously be wasted on you, it's not worth the bother. For instance, when someone actually did provide a site with examples, you dismissed it as "one guy's blog" even though it hosts writings from several of the most well-known and influential libertarians (if that's not a contradiction in terms).
.
Listen buddy, I was seeking any sort of counter or rational retort to my observations.
So far all Ive got is a bunch of people telling me "No your stupid...we libertarians opposed Bush and his polices".
I reply "please show me an example of a counter protest or any news getting event or examples of libertarian not voting simply as neoconservative republicans".
The reply offered, a mans blog. Yes it had plenty of letters from others claiming to be libertarians, but I was looking for a public instance, not an online website...something with substance...I could find a website for anything and find hundreds of posts and posters on a topic...Im looking for real life instances of opposition.
So continue your ad hominem. It only furthers my initial point. Libertarians and States Rightist = Republicans going by a new name after their party lost its charm to large chunks of the public.
You were shown evidence and you rejected it out of hand. Your actions and demeanor clearly show you're less interested in listening and more interested in shouting. So by all means, carry on.
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