Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The truth is, when the UK was going to pull out of the area after WW2, they were going to divide the country up into two countries under the UN partition plan. There would be an Israel and a Palestine. This never happened because the muslims refused to allow Israel to exist, and since the Muslims outnumbered the Jews by huge margins, they believed they would win the war. Of course, the United States heavily funded the Jews, which is the only reason they won.
So the question then becomes. Who is right and who is wrong? Does Israel even have the right to exist? Who's land is it anyway?
I mean, technically Israel was Israel, and was the land of the jews before Islam even existed. So does that mean it is the Jews land? Or is it the muslims land because they defeated the Jews and took over the land for more than a thousand years? Or maybe it was the Christians land because they controlled it under the Byzantine empire and again during the crusades?
The truth is, it is no ones land. It is whoever lays claim to it and fights hard enough to keep it. Before modern times, the borders of countries changed constantly through conquest. In this politically correct world, that isn't allowed to hapen.
If the United States wanted to fund Israel, Israel could probably conquer huge swaths of the middle-east. Does that make it all Israels land? The United States could conquer Israel, would that make it our land?
If you want my opinion, a country's borders should be based off the people who live there. But every attempt should be made to come to some mutual agreement with your neighbors to avoid conflict. The problem is, neither Israel nor the arabs seem to want to come to any sort of agreement.
I don't feel sorry for the Arabs because Palestine could have existed from day one if the Arabs would have just allowed the partition plan to go through. But I can't really feel sorry for Israel because they are abusing their power in the region and building settlements on the lands they conquered, while knowing that it would infuriate the Arabs.
There is honestly ZERO chance that that area will ever be peaceful.
You did not respond to many of my questions/issues. I thought the topic was to ban muslim immigration to USA. Instead you are posting info about muslim in other countries. Do you want to ban the muslims from the entire planet? Most of these sites are operated by hate mongers and full of lies.
Our down fall as a great nation started in early 1970's when born again christians made a pact with the devil. You see, Jesus will only return to this earth if israel is ruled bu the jews. I am sure you know the story. Arab oil embargo led to increase energy demand and ultimately higher prices for good made in USA. This started with massive outflow of manufacturing jobs to countries with cheaper labor. We continue to support israel, the aid we give them directly is miniscule in comparison to price we pay for supporting them. To many muslims, and terrorists, it is all about palestine. It should be obvious they will not give up. Wars in Iraq and afghanistan have ruined us with no end in sight. Now the neocons/born again christians with urging of israel want us to attack Iran. Meanwhile china/india are buying up chunks and chunks of natural resources from the arabs/african and latin america buy paying them fair prices. Our future is now weak mainly due to fact that we keep supporting racist nation of israel, practioners of apartheid. You have to decide if you are for the stars and stripes or israel.
I think you are being a little naive to the teachings of Islam. Its true not everyone is a suicide bomber, but there are many many muslims in America that give money to organizations like Hezbollah and al'qaeda. There are many more AMERICAN muslims that celebrate in the street when we are attacked. Almost all muslims in the middle-east either support terrorist acts against America directly or are complicit to the terrorist acts. In Iraq there were plenty of families that were giving Al'qaeda refuge in their homes, as those people were making attacks against the United States.
We became the de-facto "leaders of the free world" primarily because of our position as a huge manufacturing base during WW2(way before the civil rights movement) and our huge size/population/resources. In fact the civil rights movement was kind of the beginning of the end for the United States. Since then crime rates have gone up substantially, especially rapes, murders, and robberies. The incarceration rate has gone through the roof. Families can't survive without two incomes. And terrorism is rampant and a daily part of life.
This country has NEVER been an inclusive country, and it was not inclusive during WWII, in fact we locked up the Japanese in internment camps. Throughout our history we have constantly put in place quotas and other immigrations limits to block immigration from "undesirables". Do you think we would be the great country we are now, if we had the open borders we have today? The west coast would all be majority Asian, the southwest and large swaths of the midwest would be all Mexicans. The country would be far more divided than it is today.
This country was built off western European ideals and beliefs, without that base this country would be nothing. If Mexico, Africa, Asia, and the middle-east have such great people that helped "build" this country into being the leader of the free world, then why are their own countries such crap-holes.
The truth is, this country is currently on an eventual slide from its current position. As Western European countries have weakened themselves by allowing a flood of immigration, Asian countries become more and more powerful, it is pretty much inevitable that the balance of power is going to shift to Asia.
The "China" that everyone is so worried about does not allow immigration of ANY TYPE, at ANY TIME.
Good post.
I would also point out that, in a similar vein, the IRA (Irish Republican Army) was also funded by money from some Americans - and used that funding to engage in a terror campaign in the UK that resulted in hundreds of deaths and maimings.
I'm not sure what many of their contributors thought their donations were being/had been used for but the revenue dried up pretty fast after 9/11
I guess the difference is that the money was not seen to be funding attacks on American soil - which could be the case with Islamic extremist groups - but I think it's an interesting side note to your post.
Last edited by London Girl; 12-03-2009 at 11:28 AM..
Should we stop Muslim Immigration to the USA for the next 10-15 years?
Why or why not?
This is a tough one and I do have my stance on it. I am just wondering what you all think.
Real smart idea. So instead of moderate Muslims (because there are over a billion of those) coming to this country, the only ones we'd have coming in would be those who sneak past our borders, making them even more difficult to keep track of.
How many Muslim terrorist attacks have happened on American soil? How many Muslims are living in America?
All this would do is give more credibility to the terrorists in the Muslim world that America hates them and that it really is a holy war againt Muslims.
You did not respond to many of my questions/issues. I thought the topic was to ban muslim immigration to USA. Instead you are posting info about muslim in other countries. Do you want to ban the muslims from the entire planet? Most of these sites are operated by hate mongers and full of lies.
Our down fall as a great nation started in early 1970's when born again christians made a pact with the devil. You see, Jesus will only return to this earth if israel is ruled bu the jews. I am sure you know the story. Arab oil embargo led to increase energy demand and ultimately higher prices for good made in USA. This started with massive outflow of manufacturing jobs to countries with cheaper labor. We continue to support israel, the aid we give them directly is miniscule in comparison to price we pay for supporting them. To many muslims, and terrorists, it is all about palestine. It should be obvious they will not give up. Wars in Iraq and afghanistan have ruined us with no end in sight. Now the neocons/born again christians with urging of israel want us to attack Iran. Meanwhile china/india are buying up chunks and chunks of natural resources from the arabs/african and latin america buy paying them fair prices. Our future is now weak mainly due to fact that we keep supporting racist nation of israel, practioners of apartheid. You have to decide if you are for the stars and stripes or israel.
I think you are severely ignoring many of the motivations for the United States' support for Israel. I would pin it on the holocaust more than anything else, but there have been a lot of changes in Israel than you might expect. Since the beginning of this century Jews had to been streaming into Israel while it was a british colony. Towards the beginning of WW2 jews were streaming into Israel in huge numbers.
At the turn of the century, there were practically no jews in Israel(palestine). By 1948 there was about one jew for every two arabs in Israel. Many in the international world sort of pitied the jews because of WW2 and were eager to give them a homeland. Which is why the Iranian president and other Arabs are always denying the holocaust. Because of the holocaust, most people see the Jews as refugees from the violence in Europe. If you could prove there is no holocaust, then the jews would just be invaders of Palestine under the auspices of the British colonial period.
If you don't want the jews to be in Palestine, then there is a going to be a new "jewish question". What do you do with the jews? The jews want to be in Israel because its their ancestral land, and right now most of the people living in Israel are jews. Should we just kick them all out and move them to another country, like the United States?
The real question that needs to be answered is, whose land is it? The land was only in the posession of the arabs because of their conquest of Israel. Before then it was Jewish land. By that logic, it was Arab land because the Arabs were more powerful than the jews. Well the jews right now are more powerful(with the support of the US), so does that mean any land that the jews conquer is theirs?
The truth is, before the United Nations, Israel(along with the USA) would just kick the crap out of the muslims and be done with it. Or the Arabs would just kick the crap out of the jews(if the US didn't help). Everything would be fixed right? Either way there would be extreme human rights violations. What people need to realize is that, the jews and the arabs have equal claim to the land, it is not arab land. And really, both sides are wrong, and neither side wants to concede anything.
And as for aparthied, I definitely don't agree with in how it was utilized. I think the South African whites shouldn't have been so greedy and should have more attempted to break the country apart, rather than try to abuse their power and suck the country dry for the benefits of whites only.
The country right now is a cesspool if crime, aids, and poverty. With 25% of all college graduates moving to the United States, and many more to other countries. The country is extremely unhappy because of the social situation in South Africa. I believe all whites should move out of South Africa, and let the Africans have back their country. It isn't like the white South Africans have no where to go. There are less than 5 million whites in South Africa today. I would be happy to extend them an invitation to the United States over the next 5 years(since we allow 1 million legal immigrants a year). Problem fixed.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 12-03-2009 at 03:03 PM..
I think you are severely ignoring many of the motivations for the United States' support for Israel. I would pin it on the holocaust more than anything else, but there have been a lot of changes in Israel than you might expect. Since the beginning of this century Jews had to been streaming into Israel while it was a british colony. Towards the beginning of WW2 jews were streaming into Israel in huge numbers.
At the turn of the century, there were practically no jews in Israel(palestine). By 1948 there was about one jew for every two arabs in Israel. Many in the international world sort of pitied the jews because of WW2 and were eager to give them a homeland. Which is why the Iranian president and other Arabs are always denying the holocaust. Because of the holocaust, most people see the Jews as refugees from the violence in Europe. If you could prove there is no holocaust, then the jews would just be invaders of Palestine under the auspices of the British colonial period.
If you don't want the jews to be in Palestine, then there is a going to be a new "jewish question". What do you do with the jews? The jews want to be in Israel because its their ancestral land, and right now most of the people living in Israel are jews. Should we just kick them all out and move them to another country, like the United States?
The real question that needs to be answered is, whose land is it? The land was only in the posession of the arabs because of their conquest of Israel. Before then it was Jewish land. By that logic, it was Arab land because the Arabs were more powerful than the jews. Well the jews right now are more powerful(with the support of the US), so does that mean any land that the jews conquer is theirs?
The truth is, before the United Nations, Israel(along with the USA) would just kick the crap out of the muslims and be done with it. Or the Arabs would just kick the crap out of the jews(if the US didn't help). Everything would be fixed right? Either way there would be extreme human rights violations. What people need to realize is that, the jews and the arabs have equal claim to the land, it is not arab land. And really, both sides are wrong, and neither side wants to concede anything.
And as for aparthied, I definitely don't agree with in how it was utilized. I think the South African whites shouldn't have been so greedy and should have more attempted to break the country apart, rather than try to abuse their power and suck the country dry for the benefits of whites only.
The country right now is a cesspool if crime, aids, and poverty. With 25% of all college graduates moving to the United States, and many more to other countries. The country is extremely unhappy because of the social situation in South Africa. I believe all whites should move out of South Africa, and let the Africans have back their country. It isn't like the white South Africans have no where to go. There are less than 5 million whites in South Africa today. I would be happy to extend them an invitation to the United States over the next 5 years(since we allow 1 million legal immigrants a year). Problem fixed.
"At the turn of the century, there were practically no jews in Israel(palestine). By 1948 there was about one jew for every two arabs in Israel."
Exactly right. There were hardly any jews in palestine. The main reason for this was not religious presecution buy muslims, but fact that majority of jews at one point became christians, and then became muslims. Others left for europe for economic reasons. Jews were killed by the european christians. Jews ran to palestine knowing fully well that muslims and jews that had migrated back to palestine were living in peace. Poor palestenians had no idea what the jews had in store for them. Had palestenians hated the jews, they could have killed everyone of them with sticks and rocks at the turn of the century. No one could have stoped the palestenians. Definately not the europeans, usa or the jews themselves.
Let me spell this out for you once again. These palestenians you hate so much, were at one time jews, then became christians, and then majority became muslims. There ancestors have been there for thousands of years. There genetic DNA is native to that land. Majority of jews in Israel now have caucasian DNA and not "jewish" DNA (whole different issue)
Finally, the eruopeans killed the jews/holocaust. The others they shiped to palestine. How convenient. Remember, this just happend few decades ago (our superior western civilization did this). How is fair for the palestenians to pay for sins of others. My only beef with the palestenians is that they allowed this to happend to them.
****You are still not responding to my questions. Why dont you address the fact that our support of israel has cost us dearly and costs keeps escalating. One of these days, arabs/iran will go nuclear. Then the **** up. Israel will have to eat the humble pie and give palestenians there land. In the meantime, we will be poorer and if hisotry tells us anything, these arabs/muslims will not forgive us for centuries. Pick your side, are you for USA or Israel.
Last edited by LOVEUSA1; 12-03-2009 at 04:41 PM..
Reason: mistake
Should we stop Muslim Immigration to the USA for the next 10-15 years?
Why or why not?
This is a tough one and I do have my stance on it. I am just wondering what you all think.
Yes. Until Islam can police itself and demonstrate to the world that its message is one of peace, rather than interantional terrorism and a return to the 7th century. Why import chaos and oppression? look at the mistakes of the UK and France. Keep Islam isolated and contained.
"At the turn of the century, there were practically no jews in Israel(palestine). By 1948 there was about one jew for every two arabs in Israel."
Exactly right. There were hardly any jews in palestine. The main reason for this was not religious presecution buy muslims, but fact that majority of jews at one point became christians, and then became muslims. Others left for europe for economic reasons. Jews were killed by the european christians. Jews ran to palestine knowing fully well that muslims and jews that had migrated back to palestine were living in peace. Poor palestenians had no idea what the jews had in store for them. Had palestenians hated the jews, they could have killed everyone of them with sticks and rocks at the turn of the century. No one could have stoped the palestenians. Definately not the europeans, usa or the jews themselves.
The only reason the Jews were allowed to go back was because of the British controlling that area. Mainly after WW1 with the destruction of the Ottoman empire. The Europeans were becoming very anti-semitic and were happy to be able to move the Jews out of Europe. You can actually blame the British for moving the Jews into Palestine. There wasn't too much the Palestinians could do about it till the British pulled out of almost all of their old empire after WW2. Thats why in 1948 there was one jew for every two palestinians, and thats when the partition plan became important because the state was about to become independent and the jews wanted it divided so they could have their own country, not ruled by the majority Palestinians. The international community was happy to oblige the Jews and the UN passed the Partition plan. Which the Palestinians(as well as all other Arab nations) prompty turned down, instead they decided to fight it out because they felt like they would win. But they lost.
In truth, if the Arabs would have just accepted the UNITED NATIONS partition plan, then the two countries of Israel and Palestine would have existed since 1948, and the situation would have been better for all participants. The jews have been relentlessly attacked by the arabs ever since then.
And while you can say that the Jews shouldn't even be in Israel. Again, that had nothing to do with the Arabs being eager to let them in, it had everything to do with the British conquering Palestine and forcing them to allow Jewish immigrants. So, blame the British for the entire problem. And while you're at it, we can blame the British for South Africa too. That place is a cesspool.
Quote:
Let me spell this out for you once again. These palestenians you hate so much, were at one time jews, then became christians, and then majority became muslims. There ancestors have been there for thousands of years. There genetic DNA is native to that land. Majority of jews in Israel now have caucasian DNA and not "jewish" DNA (whole different issue)
Finally, the eruopeans killed the jews/holocaust. The others they shiped to palestine. How convenient. Remember, this just happend few decades ago (our superior western civilization did this). How is fair for the palestenians to pay for sins of others. My only beef with the palestenians is that they allowed this to happend to them.
For one, I don't hate the Palestinians. I am merely trying to point out of the complexities of the situation. It really isn't as simple as many people think. The jews weren't some evil that conquered Israel and stole the land away from the Palestinians, which is how many people want to paint the situation. The jews were mostly pushed out of Europe. The jews had absolutely no homeland. The problem is, if you kick them out of Israel now, where do they go? It isn't a simple answer. The truth is, the jews and the muslims have both been wronged, and the situation in Israel isn't exactly peachy for either party. They are completely surrounded by death. Having to deal with constant suicide bombings and the prospect of major terrorist activites all the time. Of course, its probably better than being slaughtered by the Germans.
Quote:
****You are still not responding to my questions. Why dont you address the fact that our support of israel has cost us dearly and costs keeps escalating. One of these days, arabs/iran will go nuclear. Then the **** up. Israel will have to eat the humble pie and give palestenians there land. In the meantime, we will be poorer and if hisotry tells us anything, these arabs/muslims will not forgive us for centuries. Pick your side, are you for USA or Israel.
I totally understand that supporting Israel is not in our strategic interest. The founding fathers have always warned against "entangling alliances" with foreign countries. Much of the extreme hatred towards the United States by muslims is a direct consequence of our overwhelming support for Israel.
The Arabs might go nuclear, but the Jews already are nuclear, have been for a very long time. I highly doubt that will change the dynamic much at all. Pakistan has had nukes for a long time. Of course, Pakistan isn't exactly Saudi Arabia either. I would be pretty fearful for the end of the world once the Saudi's have nukes.
As for the Muslims, why in the hell do I care what they think? I am fairly sure we could conquer the entire region, and enslave all the people, steal their oil, and force them into extreme poverty if we wanted to. They should actually be kissing some butt and be praising Americans for being the wasteful and greedy people they are today. Without oil, pretty much all of the middle-east would be Sub-Saharan Africa. Do you really believe the United States is going to become less wealthy than the Middle-East in the next 300 years? Or ever?
The truth is, Muslims do pose a danger(even if slight) to the United States. There is absolutely no benefits to inviting them into this country. ZERO. You can talk about have you have a muslim friend who is a doctor or an engineer or a _____, and how wonderful he is. And while that maybe true. This country still doesn't NEED him. I am sure we could find doctors and engineers or whatever else we need. That would come here and do just as good a job from more pro-western countries. And we would have a much less of a chance of him either being a terrorist or helping terrorists, or having children who become terrorists. There are millions of people wanting to come to this country that are already on the waiting list.
We absolutely should STOP ALL Immigration of muslims to the US if they are not willing to renounce thier murderous religion that has decared War on the USA, then we absolutely should ban them. Take up for them to come here, then in my opinion you are promoting war against my Country. And may you be shot for your treason.
We should stop ALL immigration for the next 5-10 years. The country's full enough with not enough jobs to go around.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
