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Old 05-19-2007, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
414 posts, read 2,456,373 times
Reputation: 296

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy View Post
This is likely to be the most sensible arguement that I've ever read in these forums.
Agreed. Thank you very much love it.
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Old 05-19-2007, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
414 posts, read 2,456,373 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by chele123 View Post
A person should not have to have a college degree to be able to get a job, I don't have one, and I have always been able to find a job! As demonstrated by 12 million illegal aliens, there are jobs out there. It should not be a choice to go on welfare instead of taking a low paying job. When I was newly single I worked three, sometimes four, minimum wage jobs - just to survive. There are plenty of jobs out there, you just have to be willing to work. The easiest way to fix the welfare problem is to take it away. "A hand up, not a hand out" is exactly right. I live in a very small town where we all know way too much about each other. This town has attracted quite a few "no visible means of support" people because it is affordable to live here. It is scary how many people find a way to claim disablility, or find a way to enroll in welfare. Yes, I am talking plain old fashioned con-artists that have no intention of working because they think they are smart enough to out-smart the system and sadly, they are right, because they are living work-free. Put them to work, maybe it will cut down their free time and reduce their reproducing! Good grief! We have third and fourth generation welfare people here! PUT THEM TO WORK!
How does working two jobs work or three, four for that matter? Do you work each of them for 20, 30 hours a week? Do they include health benefits? Why would you work three jobs if you could work one full-time and one part-time? Does anyone have two full-time jobs -- feel free to explain.
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Old 05-19-2007, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
1,154 posts, read 4,128,185 times
Reputation: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy View Post
This is likely to be the most sensible arguement that I've ever read in these forums.
I agree, but the problem is even deeper than that. The government prints money to pay for these welfare programs (as well as an interventionist foreign policy... hence the term "welfare-warfare state"), driving down the value of our currency. The current US Dollar is worth only 4% of what it was worth the day we left the gold standard, and we wonder why.

This deficit spending as well as fraction-reserve banking (which would be inherently illegal under a commodity-based currency standard) are tearing apart the value of the dollar. It's getting to the point that nations around the world are dropping the dollar in favor of the euro to use as their reserve currencies, which cycles back and further brings down the dollar's value. Iraq, Iran, Venezuala, and other oil suppliers are, for the first time in decades, selling oil not for dollars but for euros exclusively.

</rant>
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,459 posts, read 6,787,044 times
Reputation: 1237
Actually taxes have never been lower now then in the last 25 years.
Reasoning to say they are not is a perpetuated myth by the far right and their usually uninformed minions.

Under Ronald Reagan taxes where cut for the wealthiest- under Bush they have been cut even more.
Health care in fact currently in the USA is a travesty- which frankly I feel shows the false values the USA represents.
Those values after 27 plus years of 'conservative' values includes; A widening gap between the rich and poor; huge amounts of debt with a nearly zero savings rate at a time with vast demographic changes around the corner; The average American does not have $25,000 saved for retirement.
And of course a toxic, virulent health care system.

Last edited by skytrekker; 05-20-2007 at 05:03 AM..
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:11 PM
 
646 posts, read 1,692,645 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
I'm not familiar with you, so don't take this personally. I'd like to bring attention to your arguments.

Two issues that are commonly supported by liberals (not saying you are a liberal): Raising the minimum wage. Allowing illegal immigration.

Why are liberals concerned with inflation when discussing illegal immigration, but disinterested in higher prices when discussing the minimum wage?
First, I don't see too many people (even on the left) simply allowing illegal immigration, second I'm certainly concerned with any type of change in price.

Certainly there is a risk that if minimum wage is increased, there will be some inflation, but on that issue I think the immediate benefits outweigh any potential risks.

In general, conservatives are more pro-business, and that's why you see this push for the administration to allow a guest-worker program in order to keep costs down for businesses.
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
1,154 posts, read 4,128,185 times
Reputation: 710


Supporting private charity over welfare =/= not caring about the poor.

Hell, some of Rothbard's writings regarding the homestead principle and the transfer of property from the state to the workers sound like they come from the book of Marx at first glance.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:59 PM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,530,618 times
Reputation: 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallstreet1986 View Post
How does working two jobs work or three, four for that matter? Do you work each of them for 20, 30 hours a week? Do they include health benefits? Why would you work three jobs if you could work one full-time and one part-time? Does anyone have two full-time jobs -- feel free to explain.
You want the break-down of how I worked so many jobs just to survive? Ok, since you asked.
Job 1. I worked (and still do) at a hospital doing the insurance billing M-F, 8:30-5. This job paid my bills and my health benefits.
Job 2. I worked two nights a week from 5:30 - 10pm at the bar, serving beer. This job was my spending cash.
Job 3. I worked two nights a week at the Pizza place. This job went straight into savings.
Jobs 4. For one season I mowed the golf course as needed. For a time I worked doing laundry at the hospital.
I worked the hours the part-time jobs needed me to work. Why wouldn't I work so many different jobs? If nothing else it helps fight burn-out, especially since this wasn't a short-term arrangement. One thing good about working so much is there is a lot less time to spend money!
I still work at the hospital, 7 years now. I am also a volunteer EMT. It pays a small sum per ambulance run, and that money goes into savings. Now that I am married I don't have to work as many jobs. And no, it isn't because he makes a lot of money, I actually earn more than he does. We live simply. We have minimal bills.
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:13 PM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,530,618 times
Reputation: 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by cil View Post
I am not *completely* disagreeing with you.
But did you happen to look at the video I posted way at the beginning of this thread?
I wasn't able to look at it before, I lost my sound on my 'puter! But I watched it just now. I'm impressed by Tammy's pluck, and wish her all the best. She is doing the best she knows how, even when it isn't the easy way to do it. You can't help but admire that.
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Old 05-24-2007, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
414 posts, read 2,456,373 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by chele123 View Post
You want the break-down of how I worked so many jobs just to survive? Ok, since you asked.
Job 1. I worked (and still do) at a hospital doing the insurance billing M-F, 8:30-5. This job paid my bills and my health benefits.
Job 2. I worked two nights a week from 5:30 - 10pm at the bar, serving beer. This job was my spending cash.
Job 3. I worked two nights a week at the Pizza place. This job went straight into savings.
Jobs 4. For one season I mowed the golf course as needed. For a time I worked doing laundry at the hospital.
I worked the hours the part-time jobs needed me to work. Why wouldn't I work so many different jobs? If nothing else it helps fight burn-out, especially since this wasn't a short-term arrangement. One thing good about working so much is there is a lot less time to spend money!
I still work at the hospital, 7 years now. I am also a volunteer EMT. It pays a small sum per ambulance run, and that money goes into savings. Now that I am married I don't have to work as many jobs. And no, it isn't because he makes a lot of money, I actually earn more than he does. We live simply. We have minimal bills.
Yeah, its good to get some variety. Still long days and can get pretty tired but you're making it work.
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Old 05-25-2007, 08:57 PM
 
Location: SW Kansas
1,787 posts, read 3,530,618 times
Reputation: 1421
It's not really bad, working so much. I rarely had a full day off, but when I did have time off I made good use of it. I wasn't wasting a lot of time, doing meaningless things like watching television. (I was on the computer though! *LOL* )
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