Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
the only thing thoughless are the felon posts that show up on CDF advocating for vicious criminals going unpunished.
there are no rapists or murderers in san bruno jail only victims of a judgemental stereotyping society that have discriminated against men of lesser opportunity when they had a "terrible misunderstanding".
"felon posts"??? What are you talking about? Here in Florida, the inmates in our prisons DO NOT have access to the Internet and message boards......rarely would any of them have access to a computer, much less the Internet. Prisons in our state do not have cable TV either, which most people believe that they do.
Are you saying that you actually believe that "felons" post here on CDF? If so, WHERE would some of those posts be locate? Who do you think is a convicted felon of all the people who post on this board? That's quite an accusation there, you know. NOBODY IS ADVOCATING THAT VICIOUS CRIMINALS GO UNPUNISHED. Where do you get that idea? I'm sure your reading comprehension is far above average.
You know, you're spouting off stuff from back in the "hippie" days and the 1960s. THIS IS 2009. The court system is hard on crime and criminals in 2009, as well they should be.
Don't know about where you live, but here in Florida criminal court judges are required to sentence people according to Florida sentencing guidelines......and they cannot deviate from those REQUIRED SENTENCES FOR VARIOUS CRIMES without good reason, and they have to state that reason on the record when sentencing someone.
Again, with all due respect, your views about criminals and how the U.S. justice system should work is beyond Draconian. What's WRONG with giving people a trial if they don't want to plead guilty?
I noticed that you DID NOT provide the source for your numbers of $8 million for a trial and $1 million a year for each year of incarceration. Did you just dream up those numbers?
"felon posts"??? What are you talking about? Here in Florida, the inmates in our prisons DO NOT have access to the Internet and message boards......rarely would any of them have access to a computer, much less the Internet. Prisons in our state do not have cable TV either, which most people believe that they do.
Are you saying that you actually believe that "felons" post here on CDF? If so, WHERE would some of those posts be locate? Who do you think is a convicted felon of all the people who post on this board? That's quite an accusation there, you know. NOBODY IS ADVOCATING THAT VICIOUS CRIMINALS GO UNPUNISHED. Where do you get that idea? I'm sure your reading comprehension is far above average.
You know, you're spouting off stuff from back in the "hippie" days and the 1960s. THIS IS 2009. The court system is hard on crime and criminals in 2009, as well they should be.
Don't know about where you live, but here in Florida criminal court judges are required to sentence people according to Florida sentencing guidelines......and they cannot deviate from those REQUIRED SENTENCES FOR VARIOUS CRIMES without good reason, and they have to state that reason on the record when sentencing someone.
Again, with all due respect, your views about criminals and how the U.S. justice system should work is beyond Draconian. What's WRONG with giving people a trial if they don't want to plead guilty?
I noticed that you DID NOT provide the source for your numbers of $8 million for a trial and $1 million a year for each year of incarceration. Did you just dream up those numbers?
angry people get out of jail and post on CDF, what is so complicated about that?
people get their sentences shortened all the time in florida that what parole boards are for even with set sentences, there are always extenuating circumstances. trials are good-- letting people walk free who are guilty is not. i dont care for your remarks about spouting off. please stop it. here is a link on expenses of 911 trial there are lots of them but i did not find the one on 8 million yet. Graham: WH asked me to keep mum on 9/11 trial - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com
but 8 million divided by 5 suspects is 1.6 million each---- not a lota money for a high profile trial in NYC.
Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 11-18-2009 at 01:25 AM..
I am more concerned about those they killed and their families and friends.
I have little to no concern for murderers.
I understand but killing another will not undo what has happened. And what if somewhere 15 years from now new evidence is uncovered that would prove innocence. U can not undo it when they are dead.
Life without parole is the death penalty just much slower and miserable than lying down and going to sleep like you would an old dog
So, how would you "fix" the system? Would you allow the death penalty to be charged ONLY in those cases where there is a video tape of the murder, or a photo of the murder?
The problem is really NOT with the person who is actually guilty. The problem is that some people are wrongfully convicted and sentenced to death along with those who are actually guilty. I promise you that most death cases don't have things like video tapes or photos, or other such convincing evidence. Eye witness testimony is the least credible evidence you can put on in a criminal case. HOW do you weed out those probable wrongful convictions in our system? The only way I can see that that could happen is to get rid of the death sentence, just lock people up for life without parole ever, and then if LATER a person is found to have been convicted of a crime he/she did not commit, WE CAN FIX IT.
I would outlaw the death penalty. I think instances where there is 100% proof is so rare as to be irrelevant.
Single guy, lives alone, goes to a bar, meets a woman, they really like each other, drink together in the bar for hours, many people in the bar observe them, then they leave the bar together late in the evening. They go to woman's home (she also lives alone), they have sex, then the man decides to go home at say 3:00 a.m.....No one sees him leave. No one knows what time he arrived at his home. After the man leaves the woman's apartment, someone comes inside and murders her. Very clean. Say an old "boyfriend"....who had a key at one time. The killer does not rape the woman. Does not leave any DNA. No one sees him enter the apartment, no one hears anything, no one see him leave, there are no security camera which catch his image. Next day when police find the murder victim and start to investigate, they find out about the guy the woman met in the bar. He was the last person to be seen with her. His DNA is in the apartment in her body. He has no alibi for when he left the apartment. Could that DNA point to the wrong person?
In this case, nobody witnessed the murder, there is no murder weapon with his prints, no sign of struggle, no sign of forced entry, no sign of rape, and his story checks out enough to raise some doubt.
In this case, if the police decided to pin it on the guy, without even questioning anyone else (which would be a completely inept police force and DA office), I would say this is not a case that could be tried for death. There obviously has to be some other pieces, a murder weapon, motive, witnesses. The case you mentioned is very circumstantial, actually completely circumstantial.
In this case, nobody witnessed the murder, there is no murder weapon with his prints, no sign of struggle, no sign of forced entry, no sign of rape, and his story checks out enough to raise some doubt.
In this case, if the police decided to pin it on the guy, without even questioning anyone else (which would be a completely inept police force and DA office), I would say this is not a case that could be tried for death. There obviously has to be some other pieces, a murder weapon, motive, witnesses. The case you mentioned is very circumstantial, actually completely circumstantial.
There are LOTS of inept police departments out there. Lots of Brady violations in investigations......
As for murder weapon, could be hands......strangulation. His fingerprints would be in many places in the home because he had just spent time there with the woman. The no forced entry would actually, IMO, support the case against the guy who went home with the woman. She let him in. I don't understand what the guy's "story" would be.....he went to a bar, met the woman, took her home, had sex with her, and THEN just decided to get up at about 3:00 a.m. and went home instead of spending the rest of the night in her nice, comfortable bed??? No one saw him leave. No one saw him arrive at his home. I think a good prosecurot could make a lot out of the weakness of that story. Motive? Anything is possible with that set of circumstances. How do you distinguish between rape and rough sex?
It's my understanding that prosecutors these days are having some problems getting convictions in cases because of all the CSI type shows on TV. I've heard that it seems jurors sort of expect the police to be able to determine guilt through forensic science or a jury will acquit. In this case, the jury would have DNA, and the general belief that DNA is the ultimate proof would support a conviction in such a case, IMO. Plus, I do believe many people have been convicted in death cases on circumstantial evidence.
angry people get out of jail and post on CDF, what is so complicated about that?
people get their sentences shortened all the time in florida that what parole boards are for even with set sentences, there are always extenuating circumstances. trials are good-- letting people walk free who are guilty is not. i dont care for your remarks about spouting off. please stop it. here is a link on expenses of 911 trial there are lots of them but i did not find the one on 8 million yet. Graham: WH asked me to keep mum on 9/11 trial - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com
but 8 million divided by 5 suspects is 1.6 million each---- not a lota money for a high profile trial in NYC.
A lot of NOT ANGRY people get out of PRISON after completing their sentences, too. Let me ask you this: Do you think that everyone who posts about flaws in the system, or who supports human rights in this country in our prison system, is a convicted felon who has gotten out of prison and is posting on CDF?
Please. We are talking about the death penalty. Please show me supporting information that people sentenced to life without parole in Florida get their sentences shortened all the time. I disagree with you about that.
We have had strong law-and-order Republican governors in Florida for quite awhile now. We don't have parole boards here who grant parole carelessly or frequently. If you have proof that I am incorrect about that, please present it.
WHERE do you get the idea that a lot of guilty people are set free? HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE GUILTY prior to a trial? I'm afraid that kind of thought process, IMO, sounds very biased. Do you believe in GUILTY until proven innocent? Do you believe that every person arrested is guilty and that they must prove their innocence in a trial?
You have cited numbers you think are correct for trials involving terrorists as murderers. There are people and organizations out there who actually do data collection and track things like the costs of carrying out the death penalty as well as other pertinent information concerning the death penalty in the U.S. Perhaps you should look at that information rather than making assumptions about costs, etc., based on perhaps your own calculations.
I understand but killing another will not undo what has happened. And what if somewhere 15 years from now new evidence is uncovered that would prove innocence. U can not undo it when they are dead.
Life without parole is the death penalty just much slower and miserable than lying down and going to sleep like you would an old dog
Wjwet, I think you make a very good point when you say that life without parole is, in fact, a death sentence; it's just a very long and slow death sentence. LWOP is death to the kind of life the convicted person had lived prior to prison. It is death to everything which that person valued. And it is literal death ultimately. Just a slow death with plenty of time to think about the murder and the consequences of that behavior.
Last edited by Austin13; 11-18-2009 at 09:39 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
