Why the South is so incredibly misunderstood... (Representatives, Alabama, crime rates)

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

I agree the South is misunderstood. But those of us who are aware of its Civil Rights legacy find ot hard to set that aside when we think about the South, despite the great strides the region has mage in the past few decades. Images of the Governor of Mississippi standing in the doorway of Ole Miss with legally armed thugs trying to block the admission of the first "Negro" student... the Governor of Geogia handing out pick ax handles from his Atlanta restaurant to whites who'd help fight integration... the bodies of the white and black college student civil rights workers murdered by locals, pulled out of a Mississippi forest... the innocent faces of the little black girls killed by a bomb in a Birmingham church...the flaming bus in Alabama, torched by racists to intimidate the civil rights riders... the picture of the black Chicago boy who was tortured and thrown in a river with weights by Mississippi segregationists, the police chief of Birmingham ordering civil rights marchers to be attacked by dogs and fire hoses...the black girl being taunted and insulted by the rabid mob outside Central High in Little Rock.

These things stay with many of us even though those days and the perpetrators are long gone (thank God). Yes, the South is much different today, but to those of us who know these imiages and that history, it's hard not to think about it.

On the other hand, Ben Around, the major NE media tended to downplay their own racial problems. Or ignore them completely. The South has always been the preferred "whipping boy" for self-righteous northern politicians and media. And it was easy to do, since most of them never had to confront it.

For one reason, there were very few blacks (comparatively speaking) in the North and West as compared to the South (defined for this purpose as the 11 Old Confederate states and border states which had "Jim Crow" laws). But they not need kid themselves. Segregation of the type in the North (defined as non-Southern states) was every bit as prevelant as that in the South. De facto vis a vis De jure. The major difference was that Southerners were just less hypocritical about it all.

When they did? It became the very epitome of hypocricy. Suddenly, all those who previously favored every federal measure aimed at the South, put their mouths and agenda's in reverse. Forced busing was a great idea...when it was confined to the South. When it became otherwise? Well, there is Pontiac, Michigan and South Boston, Massachusetts. Many northern whites fled to the suburbs and/or stuck their own kids in private schools rather than live up to the example they piously proclaimed should be the attitude of Southerners.

Herman Talmadge of Georgia once recalled (in his memoirs) how when he introduced a resolution to treat, for the purposes of forced busing, that de-facto and de-jure segregation be treated the same? That almost all of the northern congressmen hemmed and hawed....wrung their hands...made feeble excuses....and eventually voted against it. As Talmadge said: I knew it wouldn't pass. I just wanted to force them to go on record as being the self-righteous hypocrites they really were."

Anyway, Dr. King once said "if you want to teach a white Southerner how to hate, send him to Chicago." And Andrew Young -- in the documentary "Eyes on the Prize II" -- said he never felt so scared for his safety in the South as in the North.

[johnatl]

^Another outstanding post, TexasReb!

I would like to add that the ONLY white politician that spoke before Congress in favor of the Civil Rights Act was the Mayor of Atlanta.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by 205

The amount of prejudice and vitriol towards the South or any other area perceived to be a "red state" never ceases to amaze me on this board. Are people not bright enough to realize that no state is clearly "red" or "blue"? There are diverse ideologies among people in all 50 state and it's amazing how people simplify things so much in order to jab their political enemies on this board and in the public in general. If you're a "conservative" you're a bible thumping, racist, hate-mongering, uneducated dirtbag whose opinion is totally disregarded. On the other hand, you're considered a neo-communist by conservatives if you indentify yourself as a liberal. The division on this board and the general public these days is disheartening.

Having said all that, that's not what my post is about. It's about the general misunderstanding non-Southerners have about the South. I'm constantly amazed at the ignorance, misunderstanding, and outright hypocrisy shown towards that part of the country especially when it comes to considerations of race and quality of life issues. There's a huge 800 pound gorilla in the room that many non-Southerners are either afraid or purposely refuse to acknowledge when discussing one of the many anti-Southern threads that are posted almost daily on this board. That's the obvious demographic difference the South has compared to the rest of the country that causes it to dwell at the bottom of many quality of life issues that have NOTHING to do with political affiliation. The South has demographic issues that affect local and state politics as well as day to day life in ways that Midwesterners and even Northeasterners (with the likely exception of Metro New York City or Detroit) couldn't even begin to understand. The point is that how can a state like (for example) Minnesota, Wisconsin, Vermont, etc. possibly understand the dynamics of living in a state where the racial make up of the state is less than 10% AA compared to Deep South states where that percentage is anywhere from 26 to 33%and those demographics have a MASSIVE effect on local and state politics that most Midwestern and Northeastern cities don't have to consider?? The largest % of AA population in the most diverse Midwestern states are at best 15% and those populations are almost exclusively in inner city neighborhoods in the larger Midwestern/Northeastern population centers. I exclude NYC to a large degree because it's an anomaly being such a large international and diverse city. My point is that outside of metro NYC/northern New Jersey, metro Detroit, and parts of Chicago, the Midwest/Northeast is lily white and couldn't begin to know what living in a heavily integrated region like the Deep South is like. There are 400 year issues/problems (plenty of which admittedly native Southerners caused) and will forever skew quality of life measures against the South. TODAY, it has nothing to do with being "backwards" or a "red state" anymore than blaming for example Michigan's economic woes on it being a liberal, union loving "blue state". 50 or 150 years ago maybe, but not today.

It would be an interesting and I think incredibly healthy topic if people weren't so afraid to talk openly and honestly about it instead of passing the old stereotype of Southern "backwardness" solely on poor white "rednecks" which seems to be so popularly implied among non-Southerners.

I'm not calling out whites or blacks in this post. There are peer pressures that blacks face in the Deep South among their own race that blacks in other parts of the country simply don't face (with the exception of maybe a few inner city neighborhoods in NYC, Detroit, Chicago). There are also major political ramifications living in any area (North, South, East, West) where a traditional minority group has a large enough representation to greatly affect politics in an area. In other words, the nature of the major political parties can be greatly influenced by the demographics of an area.

In my opinion the South gets a bad rap because of all the evangelicals & Republicans. Unfortunately it makes most Americans very uncomfortable with the mindset even if it doesn't represent what the South is really like.

[Duderino]

As a Northerner, I agree to a certain extent that the South is often misunderstood -- although there are certainly some very distinct cultural differences overall, such as political views and degrees of religiosity (as well as religious affiliation). Clearly this has a lot to do with different demographical make-ups from state to state -- such as a differing degrees of urbanity, race, etc. -- but they are nonetheless there.

As far as racism, however, that certainly exists in the North, as well. For the poster who seemed to want to paint New Jersey as this bastion of racial harmony, it should not go under the radar that a cross burning occurred on the lawn of an Obama supporter there last year.

Cross Burned On Lawn Of N.J. Obama Supporter - wcbstv.com (http://wcbstv.com/local/obama.bias.crime.2.858391.html - broken link)

If you really want to get into the nitty-gritty of hate crimes, I advise you to look at the Southern Poverty Law Center Website: SPLC: Stand Strong Against Hate.

Among the last five reports, 3 occurred in either New York or Massachusetts -- and you can certainly find hate groups and reports in all 50 states. Unfortunately, hatred and prejudice knows no state boundaries, and it's pretty disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

My overall point is that -- while they certainly exist -- in many cases our regional differences are exaggerated. I agree with the premise of this post in that ALL Americans can do a lot better to find some common ground.

[TANaples]

Originally Posted by goofykid

Oh please thats the snow bird talking in you. I've lived in the south my whole life i'm kinda glad the south lost the war.

Unfortunetely people are very stereotypical in their judgement. So they think southern equals hick and stupidity. That's fine let them think that way. I'll play dumb to see who tries to screw me and see them for who they really are. Jokes on them then who is the stupid one.

I live in this place year round, but not by choice. Actually I HATE the sun and heat (Summer SAD and heat hives). Besides, you would not believe the number of people who agree with my post.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by TANaples

The South thinks they OWN the USA. They have an overflated sense of their own importance. They are only one small part of America. They have never gotten over losing the Civil War.

Yes; especially us black people who really wanted to remain enslaved and being treating like ****. Wouldn't you be mad too????

[cmo1984]

Originally Posted by johnatl

^Another outstanding post, TexasReb!

I would like to add that the ONLY white politician that spoke before Congress in favor of the Civil Rights Act was the Mayor of Atlanta.

What are you guys talking about? Its you southerners who obsess over race. Not one northerner has brought up race at all.

Ill say it again: I DONT LIKE THE SOUTH BECAUSE OF WHAT IT IS NOW.
Its so easy for you to focus on race, because it gives you an easy differal to "nothern hypocrisy in the 60s".
I can tell you unequivically that the primary reason we dont like the south has nothing to do with that.
Its because Southerners push negative trends in everything- politics, and even media and city- into mainstream, and into power because you unthinkingly embrace positions you clearly dont educate yourselves on.

The whole title of this thread is nonsense- why you are so misunderstood. Have you ever once asked yourself if the South wasnt misunderstood at all? What if we understood it, and just didnt like it?

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by cmo1984

I can tell you unequivically that the primary reason we dont like the south has nothing to do with that.
Its because Southerners push negative trends in everything- politics, and even media and city- into mainstream, and into power because you unthinkingly embrace positions you clearly dont educate yourselves on.

The whole title of this thread is nonsense- why you are so misunderstood. Have you ever once asked yourself if the South wasnt misunderstood at all? What if we understood it, and just didnt like it?

Who is this "we" you speak of, because you most certainly aren't speaking for all Northerners.

[MrMcCoySays]

Originally Posted by cmo1984

Ill be totally honest for the sake of this post, Im really not trying to be negative-
Im from Massachusetts, Ive spent extensive time in the south, and I think that the South is way behind in many, many ways (excluding a few, select places). I find many southerners to be ignorant, and supportive of ideologies that are highly destuctive for our society, and for others around the world- like the hundreds of thousands who have died in Iraq since 2003.
I find most of the south to be crime ridden, and that southern states do little compared to northern states to help poor people- making their problems worse.
I find southern cities often tend to extremes between extremely sterile and often gated- to extremely dangerous and filthy.
I hate the car culture/sprawl way of life.

I know I'm being negative- but Im just being honest about how I feel. Its not the south per se,but trends that are/have been going on there for some time.

And btw, I really dont mind being considered a Communist Massachusetts liberal.

Well this alone could not be further from the truth, and is a good example of many northerners really having no clue what they're talking about. A majority of the people I know don't live in any of the areas you described. And I can count on both of my hands the number of ACTUAL gated communities I have ever seen in my life living down south.

Not to mention, "dangerous" is really a subjective term, as there are many people who live in areas deemed "crime ridden" (usually exaggerating) and feel perfectly safe.

A lot of northerners say "this is what I've seen", and my reply is, "you haven't seen enough".

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

I agree the South is misunderstood. But those of us who are aware of its Civil Rights legacy find ot hard to set that aside when we think about the South, despite the great strides the region has mage in the past few decades. Images of the Governor of Mississippi standing in the doorway of Ole Miss with legally armed thugs trying to block the admission of the first "Negro" student... the Governor of Geogia handing out pick ax handles from his Atlanta restaurant to whites who'd help fight integration... the bodies of the white and black college student civil rights workers murdered by locals, pulled out of a Mississippi forest... the innocent faces of the little black girls killed by a bomb in a Birmingham church...the flaming bus in Alabama, torched by racists to intimidate the civil rights riders... the picture of the black Chicago boy who was tortured and thrown in a river with weights by Mississippi segregationists, the police chief of Birmingham ordering civil rights marchers to be attacked by dogs and fire hoses...the black girl being taunted and insulted by the rabid mob outside Central High in Little Rock.

These things stay with many of us even though those days and the perpetrators are long gone (thank God). Yes, the South is much different today, but to those of us who know these imiages and that history, it's hard not to think about it.

Crap, TexasReb already beat me to the punch! But let me take another stab at it.

Your post highlights a lot of misconceptions that people from the "North" (really, it's anywhere outside the South) have about the South. Two main ones are:

1. The belief that the environment that existed back in the day still exists and is just waiting to jump off at the drop of a hat.

If we focus in on one of your examples you can easily see how wrong this idea is. The famous antics of that moron Lester Maddox, the Atlanta restaurant owner who fought integration literally with a Ax handle. The true story behind what happened was that he was upset and did what he did due to the City of Atlanta desegregating on it's own, not be federal mandate like most every other place in the south.

The mayor and the city council decided to remove all traces of segregation. That included desegregating restaurants, which tee'd Maddox. While this made him famous, and unfortunately led to him being Governor in a odd twist of fate, his type didn't last long in Atlanta. Most residents were disgusted by his actions, and the city moved towards integration without incident. To further highlight how fast things changed in Georgia, just a few short years later atlanta had a Jewish mayor, a black vice mayor, and Jimmy Carter was Governor.

The south has it's black eyes from those days, but there were also incredible stories of resolve and change that come from that. Lest we forget that it was Southern men like Martin Luther King, Jimmy Carter, John Lewis and countless other (both black and white) that ushered in the country that we live in today. Their struggles in the deep south was the impetus for for the broader social change in this country in regards to civil rights.

2. The north is not without it's sins either.

Outside of the south, like Texasreb alluded to, you were unlikely to find the kinds of de jure segregation you found in the south, but it was still there. Policies like Redlining kept black families from purchasing homes in white neighborhoods. Even though there was no segregation in schools or universities, black graduates were unlikely to gain employment at most places (Jews often suffered from the same problems). Then there are the every day encounters no law can control. Racism was just as thick up there as it was down here. I highly suggest you pick up a copy of Native Son or the Biography Malcolm X, both stories take place in the north and you'll immediately get an idea of how things were then.

My main point is that people have this idea that the south is this scary, backwards, place when in reality its no where near that bad. Viewing the entire region in the light of events that occurred 40 and 50 years ago isn't too intelligent.