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I was thinking about this... one of the complaints I hear a lot about welfare is people saying it's immoral to make them pay for the survival of people that they consider to be lazy or unwilling to work. Now we could get into a whole argument about how I don't think most people collecting some form of government subsidy are really that lazy or unwilling to work, but think of this scenario:
Five guys are stranded on a desert island. The only way to survive is to run out into the woods and kill wild boars to eat them. There's a lot of wild boars, so everyone usually has a lot to eat, except for this guy named Joobersnitz, who's sort of lazy and scared to go hunt for wild boars. Nobody really gives stuff to him because they think he's too lazy and should go hunt for himself...
Some of them try to take him with them to hunt wild boars but he's scared of wild boars so he won't go with them. Even when he does he doesn't really do anything and doesn't kill any of them, he just hangs around and looks up at the trees, or makes weird noises that make the boars run away, or whatever.
Eventually Joobersnitz gets really skinny and starts starving. Nobody gives anything to him because they're mad at him for being so lazy. If any individual person gave enough for him to eat they wouldn't have enough to eat themselves.
The leader, Jamberjangles, is a pretty strong guy and kind of pushy, and decides to save Joobersnitz. He goes to all of the other stranded guys in their tents and says "look man, besides being a lazy weirdo Joobersnitz is really a pretty cool guy and I don't want to see him all starving and ****. If you don't give him a little bit of that wild boar you caught I'm going to kick your ass."
Jamberjangles contributes a little of his own wild boar as well, and keeps doing this so that Joobersnitz can have small meals until they get rescued. None of the other stranded guys really suffer that much from it because the burden is spread equally ... they all still have plenty to eat, far more than Joobersnitz, in fact.
So the question is, do you consider Jamberjangles to be a good guy, or an evil tyrant? Do you get where I'm going here?
Last edited by fishmonger; 05-14-2007 at 09:31 PM..
I was thinking about this... one of the complaints I hear a lot about welfare is people saying it's immoral to make them pay for the survival of people that they consider to be lazy or unwilling to work. Now we could get into a whole argument about how I don't think most people collecting some form of government subsidy are really that lazy or unwilling to work, but think of this scenario:
Five guys are stranded on a desert island. The only way to survive is to run out into the woods and kill wild boars to eat them. There's a lot of wild boars, so everyone usually has a lot to eat, except for this guy named Joobersnitz, who's sort of lazy and scared to go hunt for wild boars. Nobody really gives stuff to him because they think he's too lazy and should go hunt for himself...
Eventually Joobersnitz gets really skinny and starts starving. Nobody gives anything to him because they're mad at him for being so lazy. If any individual person gave enough for him to eat they wouldn't have enough to eat themselves.
The leader, Jamberjangles, is a pretty strong guy and kind of pushy, and decides to save Joobersnitz. He goes to all of the other stranded guys in their tents and says "look man, besides being lazy Joobersnitz is really a pretty cool guy and I don't want to see him all starving and ****. If you don't give him a little bit of that wild boar you caught I'm going to kick your ass."
Jamberjangles contributes a little of his own wild boar as well, and keeps doing this so that Joobersnitz can have small meals until they get rescued. None of the other stranded guys really suffer that much from it because the burden is spread equally ... they all still have plenty to eat, far more than Joobersnitz, in fact.
So the question is, do you consider Jamberjangles to be a good guy, or an evil tyrant? Do you get where I'm going here?
They definitely should not let him starve... I say BBQ him and don't go hunting for the dangerous game that day... OK, Ok, just kidding... (Do I need to go to therapy now with the movie/TV stars ??) I would say to Joobersnitz: Come hunt with me, I will show you how so you minimize the chances of getting hurt, blah, blah, blah... If he still refuses to go after a reasonable amount of time..... Then go ahead with the BBQ....
I have a job which is very dangerous, as do millions of Americans. I would much rather be at home with my family, but that doesn't get me the life I want so here I am, taking risks I don't like. If Joobersnitz is OK with starving instead of survival, well, so be it, I am not willing to continue my entire life taking them for him to be happy.....
Of course we couldn't ask him to do chores around camp in return for the food, then it would be some perversion of what welfare was supposed to be by making him earn it !!!....
He could always look for roots to go with the meat. Or since he can't hunt, he could double up on the others chores like getting water, cooking, gathering wood for a fire, patching the makeshift hut they live in, washing clothes, watching for boats or planes. There are a varity of things he could do, just because he is not good or refuses to be good at one does not mean he can't do other things to contribute to the survival of the group.
Fishmonger, I say this with all due respect.. You will never be able to convince me that I need to support an able-bodied man, so we might as well stop with the what-if's, I just think differently than you....
Fishmonger, I say this with all due respect.. You will never be able to convince me that I need to support an able-bodied man, so we might as well stop with the what-if's, I just think differently than you....
He could always look for roots to go with the meat. Or since he can't hunt, he could double up on the others chores like getting water, cooking, gathering wood for a fire, patching the makeshift hut they live in, washing clothes, watching for boats or planes. There are a varity of things he could do, just because he is not good or refuses to be good at one does not mean he can't do other things to contribute to the survival of the group.
Right on, that is exactly how I feel... Good Post...
There are those that just chap my hide when they openly brag about "using the system" for food and money......
And there are those who really need it, but prefer to starve because pride won't let them ask for anything... they aren't at all lazy.... they've just fallen on hard times is all.
Then, there are those that fall on hard times, through none of their own doing that do ask for help.
The only one I have a problem with, would obviously be the first one here who brags about taking the system.... Let him starve for all I care...... he won't work because it's too easy to abuse the system.
The other two I would feed in a heartbeat.
I don't see anyone in your scenerio bragging about taking advantage, so it's best to assist him.
More and more folks these days are taking the system for all it might be worth..... and poor sops like us are obligated, through our taxes, to accomodate them.
We're talking post apocalyptic global warming land here. All the fish are mutated pirannahs! The horror.
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