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RE: How exactly is the system cheated in your view when eligible voters are registered to vote, and then encouraged to do so? The only actual issue that surrounds them is the fact that in the 2008 election cycle they were successful in registering more than 900,000 eligible minority and other low- and moderate-income voters primarily from urban communities.
It may be perfectly legal to register eligible voters, but when encouraging them to vote, is it ethical to tell them how to vote? Does that not interfere with their individual right to decide for themselves how to vote? It's concerning that you would see nothing wrong with this.
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Originally Posted by tinman01
How is the system cheated...well they were hired to register eligible voters. They also registered the Disney characters, the Dallas cowboys and a host of others. In other words they registered a whole lot of nothing as well. Not just 1 office or 1 employee.
In the privact sector quality control that poor would more than likely cost them their contracts. That is my point.
Those are excellent points, and it's important to remember that these cheats were being paid with our tax dollars. That's theft in my book.
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Originally Posted by saganista
No. Voter fraud is when an ineligible voter votes or in some cases makes a deliberate effort to vote. You saw ZERO cases of voter fraud in 2008 that were associated with ACORN.
Voter registration fraud is when an individual canvasser in a voter registration drive deliberately prepares and submits falsified voter registration cards. ACORN runs one of the most sophisticated voter registration fraud detecting operations in the country. It regularly identifies offenders to authorities and provides them with evidence for use in prosecution.
And that's why they have such a dependable background check of their new hires, I suppose. It doesn't appear that they care who they hire, as long as it's a warm body and knows how to write. These people falsified registrations because they were being paid for each registration. Tell me again how ACORN is generally such an "ethical" organization out to do nothing but good. And now they are going international. Don't we have enough problems right here within our own shores that haven't yet been solved?
My point is that, like shoplifting, turning in bogus voter registration cards is a crime committed by an individual employee against his or her employer. ACORN is the victim here. ACORN does not benefit in any way from bogus cards. There is zero chance that anyone named Mickey Mouse is going to be registered by any local registrar, and even less chance that someone claiming to be Mickey Mouse will actually show up on election day and try to vote. Bogus cards are a waste of everyone's time, starting with ACORN's. But by law in most places, any voter registration drive operator is required to turn in ALL cards that it receives, no matter how dumb they might appear to be. It is for the registrar's office to determine which cards are valid and which are not. That is not the job of those sponsoring the registration drive.
Oh, man. And all this time I thought the citizen was the victim, but it's really ACORN, even though voters were intimidated at the polls by the Black Panthers...and ACORN allowed it. Silly me. Whatever happened to those hoods with the night sticks? Are they working for Acorn now?
It may be perfectly legal to register eligible voters, but when encouraging them to vote, is it ethical to tell them how to vote? Does that not interfere with their individual right to decide for themselves how to vote? It's concerning that you would see nothing wrong with this.
I'm glad you see nothing wrong in helping eligible voters to both register and vote. Apparently you recognize that voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives are just as legitimate in minority and low-income urban communities as they are in upscale white suburbs. But you didn't say much about this "tell them how to vote" thing. What is it that you believe ACORN is doing in that area exactly???
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Originally Posted by southward bound
Those are excellent points, and it's important to remember that these cheats were being paid with our tax dollars. That's theft in my book.
No, those were all silly points. No bogus registration card led to any ineligible voter being registered or to any improper vote being cast. ACORN attempts to simplify the work of the local registrar's office by separating the cards it receives into batches that it believes are clearly phony, apparently good, and somewhere in between. Unlike many operators, ACORN attempts to contact the individual identified on every card to verify the information listed. Their quality control efforts are actually among the best in the country.
And it's important to remember that they are NOT being paid with any of your tax dollars for voter registration work. They are paid by various government agencies (typically HUD) for work performed under contracts they have bid on and won. This work might involve maintaining a local fair housing office where renters could learn their rights and file complaints against unscrupulous landlords for things such as non-working utilities or unmitigated vermin infestations. ACORN has never received any public money for its voter registration work.
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Originally Posted by southward bound
And that's why they have such a dependable background check of their new hires, I suppose. It doesn't appear that they care who they hire, as long as it's a warm body and knows how to write. These people falsified registrations because they were being paid for each registration.
ACORN hired more than 13,000 canvassers in the 2008 election cycle. No one has screening programs that can weed out every last bad apple from numbers that large. Ask Macy's about shoplifting rates among its sales associates for confirmation on that score.
ACORN does not pay ANY of its canvassers by the card. No operator does. All are paid by the hour, and in ACORN's case, a canvasser typically works in four-hour shifts. Someone has seriously misinformed you if you believe that ACORN pays by the card.
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Originally Posted by southward bound
Tell me again how ACORN is generally such an "ethical" organization out to do nothing but good. And now they are going international. Don't we have enough problems right here within our own shores that haven't yet been solved?
ACORN is certainly the oldest and with some 400,000 members certainly the largest organization working to advance and protect the rights of those who live and work in urban minority and low- to moderate-income communities. Some find that objective "unethical" to begin with. Otherwise, they have been around for about forty years and in that time have earned respect and support as an important element in the network of national social charities.
Like many social welfare organizations, ACORN began exploring opportunities for international operations some years ago and with some early small scale success. The international effort became independent of the US organization earlier this year. I'm not sure what your point over that was.
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Originally Posted by southward bound
Oh, man. And all this time I thought the citizen was the victim, but it's really ACORN, even though voters were intimidated at the polls by the Black Panthers...and ACORN allowed it. Silly me. Whatever happened to those hoods with the night sticks? Are they working for Acorn now?
Yes, based on the actual evidence, there is every appearance of ACORN's havng been made the victim of a right-wing smear campaign designed to to discredit and disrupt the organization, particularly in its voter registration work among communities that do not traditionally vote Republican.
I hope the rest of this paragraph was not based on the ridiculous FOX News report of Black Panther voter intimidation that was long ago revealed to have been a complete farce. But since you didn't provide any corroborating details for these claims, I really don't know how hard to laugh here.
Black Panther voter intimidation that was long ago revealed to have been a complete farce. But since you didn't provide any corroborating details for these claims, I really don't know how hard to laugh here.
Sheer volume of verbiage doesn't change the facts. Bringing up FOX doesn't change the facts.
President Obama's Justice Department continues to stonewall inquiries about why it dropped a voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party. Why?
The lawyers also ascertained that one of the three men gained access to the polling place by securing a credential as a Democratic poll watcher, according to interviews and documents reviewed by The Washington Times. Full story: EXCLUSIVE: Career lawyers overruled on voting case - Washington Times
Let's see your link to how this voter intimidation, which was said to be a nationwide effort, was "revealed to be a complete farce," as you claim. I suppose you're going to claim that this has no relation to Acorn and that Acorn didn't steer their registrants in any particular voting direction. (There were interviews of people who had been registered who said they were told how to vote, and that was just a small sampling.)
Sheer volume of verbiage doesn't change the facts. Bringing up FOX doesn't change the facts. President Obama's Justice Department continues to stonewall inquiries about why it dropped a voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party. Why?
Why did President Bush's Justice Department bring this suit to begin with? Did it have evidence that the New Black Panther Party for Self Defense -- which by the way has no connection at all to the original Black Panthers -- detailed anyone at all to the 1221 Fairmount Avenue location? Apparently they did not. Did they have any evidence that any potential voter had in fact actually been intimidated? Apparently they did not. Did it file this suit ten days before leaving office simply to dump it on the incoming administration? Apparently they did.
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Originally Posted by southward bound
The lawyers also ascertained that one of the three men gained access to the polling place by securing a credential as a Democratic poll watcher, according to interviews and documents reviewed by The Washington Times.
One of the three men was not even present. The one you speak of meanwhile LIVED IN THE FREAKING BUILDING and had obtained his poll-watcher credentials as a member of his local neighborhood council, an agency of the city government. He had every right to be where he was and to be dressed as he was. His friend with the stick did not have such rights and was quickly removed from the scene by police. Who, by the way, were later recalled to remind a FOX News crew that their presence itself was a potentially intimidating factor to some voters.
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Originally Posted by southward bound
Let's see your link to how this voter intimidation, which was said to be a nationwide effort, was "revealed to be a complete farce," as you claim.
Claimed by whom? The NBPPSD? Where is the evidence for this nationwide effort? There isn't any. There is evidence of two guys standing in front of a polling place, one of whom lived there and had completely valid poll-watcher credentials, and the other of whom was in violation of the law by virtue of possessing a stick and was quickly removed from the scene by police.
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Originally Posted by southward bound
I suppose you're going to claim that this has no relation to Acorn...
You mean just because it has absolutely no relation to ACORN???
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Originally Posted by southward bound
...and that Acorn didn't steer their registrants in any particular voting direction. (There were interviews of people who had been registered who said they were told how to vote, and that was just a small sampling.)
Well, you didn't post links to any of these allegedly damaging interviews, did you? Why not? Are they all just as ridiculous as trying to claim voter intimidation in Philadelphia when the videos show people coming and going in a perfectly normal manner as if nothing was going on, and even the FOX News reporter on the scene twice had to go out of his way to point out that there was no indication that any voter intimidation either was or had been occurring?
Maybe I should expose here the fact that Republican volunteers have stood regularly outside my own local polling place in their intimidating conservative Republican garb while handing out sample ballots that have all the Republican candidate names in great big huge letters and all the other candidate names in little teeny tiny letters that you can barely even read. I can't imagine a more obvious or sinister example of trying to steer people in a particular voting direction. What a corrupt organization the Republican Party must be!!!
If Obama can sit in Rev. Wright's church for 25 years and never hear a racist word uttered from him he surely can head up ACORN and never know they are crooked and would help sell underage girls for sex. Roll eyes.
so you've now gone from 20 years to 25 years and STILL have not provided anything indicating Wright has spewed highly charged racists sermons. Again, three sermons documented, but it seems you and the other's that continue to pull the Wright card, continue to focus ONLY on the sermon dealing with Whites, but nothing on the sermon bashing Blacks and nothing on the Sermon bashing hispanics. Why is that?
I digress, Please provide (now the 25 years) of footage of Obama sitting in Wrights church (along with both the Blacks and White church members) listing to racists sermon. We're still waiting.
I don't doubt it's been going on all this time, even when Obama was there.
I can't believe that there are people who would defend this.
It's INdefensible. The organization is permeated with corruption, and the left makes excuses and wants us to think that just because they can name someone somewhere (a republican, of chourse) who also did something unsavory, then this is OK.
It's the modus operandi of ALL Libs!
ACORN......needs to end and every other organization out there that operates like it!
And Hell yes.......THIS story should automatically go all the way to the top after being investigated for what it so OBVIOUSLY is.........VALID grounds for the consideration of impeachment hearings.....since, IMO....THIS story is even bigger than Watergate.....and THAT led to Nixon's resignation....AFTER such the realization of his own impending.....impeachment.
Throw in a TON of other questionable acts/associations/affiliations, (SEIU)ACORN, Apollo Alliance ideology, and oh....such an extremely radical agenda...AGENDA.....AGENDA!
PS..... Fed. Gov.
The taxpayers DO expect a FULL refund, with interest......for EVERY dime YOU gave ACORN since day 1
...Again, three sermons documented, but it seems you and the other's that continue to pull the Wright card, continue to focus ONLY on the sermon dealing with Whites, but nothing on the sermon bashing Blacks and nothing on the Sermon bashing hispanics. Why is that?
Please provide documentation of the sermons you refer to - those "bashing blacks and hispanics". Black Liberation Theology doesn't include that, but perhaps Wright is different. I doubt it, but let's see what you have.
Please provide documentation of the sermons you refer to - those "bashing blacks and hispanics". Black Liberation Theology doesn't include that, but perhaps Wright is different. I doubt it, but let's see what you have.
Try google, they've been all over the internet. Considering Janell tend to rant about 20 and now the new number of 25 years of racial sermons, i'm sure she has a link to them all.
Try google, they've been all over the internet. Considering Janell tend to rant about 20 and now the new number of 25 years of racial sermons, i'm sure she has a link to them all.
Sorry. I thought you had a link or two to support your claim. You're answering a question I didn't ask. I asked about your claim that Wright delivered sermons bashing Blacks and hispanics.
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Whatever happened to those hoods with the night sticks? Are they working for Acorn now? 
