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i think that religion is the dean of the school of ethics.
the fact that alota people are truant from this school is indicative in the behavior of our society.
Every culture, every society, every civilization that has been studied--from the most simple to the most complex, from ancient times to the present--has had some sort of "religion". (There may be some exceptions but I am unaware of them.) The "need" for worship has been identified as one of the prime differences between humans and animals and some scholars attribute this to the human ability to contemplate their own existence and their own death--an ability that, as far as is known, is lacking in animals.
do you know the definition of need.
a physiological or psychological requirement for the well-being of an organism.
i think that religion is the dean of the school of ethics.
the fact that alota people are truant from this school is indicative in the behavior of our society.
back to mind control....So without religion we are all just criminals with no morals?
Exactly. Just why is it relevant that I believe in any of those things? Why does everything have to be so black and white?
My personal belief is all religions contain universal truths and various cultures used stories to illustrate an end "moral" that would be universal to all.
Even stories in the bible like Adam & Eve... If you examine it as a fable, rather than concerning yourself with whether or not 2 people could seriously populate a planet, you can get a useful moral out of it.
What I get out of that story is, they were told by an all knowing power to enjoy frolicking around in Eden... Message: Don't concern yourself with knowledge. Live free, enjoy it, I'm going to provide for you, just leave the details to me, but if you eat from the tree of "knowledge" you are going to learn MORE than you ever want to know... Authority then says, Adios!
Snake comes and tells them, dont listen to that crap, he's just on some power trip. You are gonna love that apple, he's just trying to keep all the good stuff for himself.
Humans eat apple, get exactly what they were told they would get... "knowledge" and here we sit, isnt knowledge grand?? If only we could go back to oblivion...
So... thats what I get out of that "fable"... Will I really be damned to hell because I just dont "get" how 2 people created an entire planet full of people and who knows how many completely different races? Should I be punished because I fail to see why a God would be so petty as to punish someone for wondering how on earth that would even be possible.
But I'll tell you what, if I ever get to heaven, and god says, I most certainly did populate the planet with 2 people and Jesus was my son too! I would say.. "cool, I believe ya! I just didnt know who to trust on earth!" And why should I trust anyone here?
Exactly. Just why is it relevant that I believe in any of those things? Why does everything have to be so black and white?
My personal belief is all religions contain universal truths and various cultures used stories to illustrate an end "moral" that would be universal to all.
Even stories in the bible like Adam & Eve... If you examine it as a fable, rather than concerning yourself with whether or not 2 people could seriously populate a planet, you can get a useful moral out of it.
What I get out of that story is, they were told by an all knowing power to enjoy frolicking around in Eden... Message: Don't concern yourself with knowledge. Live free, enjoy it, I'm going to provide for you, just leave the details to me, but if you eat from the tree of "knowledge" you are going to learn MORE than you ever want to know... Authority then says, Adios!
Snake comes and tells them, dont listen to that crap, he just on some power trip. You are gonna love that apple, hes just trying to keep all the good stuff for himself.
Humans eat apple, get exactly what they told they would get... "knowledge" and here we sit, and isnt knowledge grand?? If only we could go back to oblivion...
So... thats what I get out of that "fable"... Will I really be damned to hell because I just dont "get" how 2 people created an entire planet full of people and who knows how many completely different races? Should I be punished because I fail to see why a God would be so petty as to punish someone for wondering how on earth that would even be possible.
But I'll tell you what, if I ever get to heaven, and god say, I most certainly did populate the planet with 2 people and Jesus was my son too! I would say.. "cool, I believe ya! I just didnt know who to trust on earth!" And why should I trust anyone here?
I'll take that a step further..
In regards to Jesus Christ. We don't neccesarily have to believe the bible (and edited by the church, mind you) version of who/what Jesus was and is.
Yes, he is the SON of god, but that is also a metaphor, as we are ALL children of god (sons and daughters).
Have you ever met someone who seems to be an old soul? Well, I believe in re-incarnation. I also believe that at some point we all reincarnate for the last time, having learned all we want/need to learn. Jesus was a prime example of an incarnation of the last life cycle before he remained only in heaven. He went through trials and tribulations. Do I have to believe that Jesus walked on water to believe what his message was when he was here on Earth. I don't think so. Do I also have to believe that hte died on the cross to believe in him? I don't. But that does not mean that I do not believe in Jesus or what the exaggerated story of his life truly means. It doesn't diminish the moral of the story/stories in the least.
My problem is and has always been that God created woman just as he created man. So why then would god deem woman inferior to men? Makes no sense at all!
You have to remember that the Bible was written 100's of years AFTER the life of Christ AND the Church, which was the ruling and governing power of the people then, edited the books of the bible omitting what did not fit the picture they wanted to create. Religion was a tool of control over the mass population by the ruler (backed strongly by the Church). Fear is/was a very powerful tool to keep the masses in control.
That's not to say that the Bible is not a great too. Indeed it is because there are stories to be taken from it, lessons to take from it. But it shouldn't be taken so literally.
And earlier in the thread I saw a post about how the lack of religion leads to lack of morals and blah blah .
Well, i can tell you that I have two very scientifically minded brothers who both grew up in the same religion I did. It wasn't shoved down our throats, but it was a part of our life and I'm grateful for that (as I stated earlier it was a nice foundation) However, as they grew into adults they seperated as well. They are very scientific minded and tend to not believe in God, at least not as I do. However, they are both two strongly moral individuals.. no "fear of god" or his "damnation" necessary (again, another contradiction. If GOD is about pure love, then how can he be full of anger and wrath as well. Those are negative emotions and GOD is a perfect being). What my brothers may not yet realize is that God is IN the science as well. Science and god are not mutually exclusive! The point is, just because someone doesn't believe in GOD or subscribe to an orginized form or religion or worship does not, by any means, make the person less moral or more criminal etc.
The Bible condones a lot of illegal activity. Apparently people were "slaves" of Christ according to The Bible. Masochism seems to be encouraged. Is that moral?
Leviticus 26:29 'Further, you will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters you will eat.
2 Kings 6:28 And the king said to her, "What is the matter with you?" And she answered, "This woman said to me, 'Give your son that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow.'
2 Kings 6:29 "So we boiled my son and ate him; and I said to her on the next day, 'Give your son, that we may eat him'; but she has hidden her son."
Jeremiah 19:9 "I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh in the siege and in the distress with which their enemies and those who seek their life will distress them."'
Lamentations 2:20 See, O LORD, and look! With whom have You dealt thus? Should women eat their offspring, The little ones who were born healthy? Should priest and prophet be slain In the sanctuary of the Lord?
Lamentations 4:10 The hands of compassionate women Boiled their own children; They became food for them Because of the destruction of the daughter of my people.
And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. —Luke 16:18
• When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. (Eph. 6:5-6)
Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-10)
Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God's approval. (1Pet. 2:18-29)
DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
• DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
• MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
• LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
• MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
• DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.
“He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.” Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, “Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick
back to mind control....So without religion we are all just criminals with no morals?
My problem is and has always been that God created woman just as he created man. So why then would god deem woman inferior to men? Makes no sense at all!
You make some good points but first I wanted to give my thoughts on this one. I am a married man and I have my role in the family. We are a traditional family in the sense. I am the breadwinner, and my wife tends to the home.
This is a partnership. She needs me to bring home the bacon, and I need her to tend to the household while I'm makin the bacon.
If she stopped her role, my kids would be heathens, my house would be a mess, and I would be functioning under full capacity.
If I stop my role, well, there would be no house at all to take care of, and the family might starve.
Both roles are equally important, but women seem to have a perception that housework and raising children is an "inferior" job. They fought long and hard for "equality" in the workplace, they fought to be equals and wanted to "prove" they could make just as much as a man. They have now gotten what they asked for and its now much more typical for both parents to work, while the kids are shoved into daycare so both can be "equals".
I want to clarify that I am not a "christian" but have read the bible and seen reference to women serving their man etc.
I do believe its "mostly" a male trait to be dominant, and for the sake of a functioning partnership, someone has to take on the submissive role or the relationship will not be functional. Some women are content to stay home and realize their importance does not need to be validated by a "career" while others despise being labeled as a housewife. But please dont misunderstand, its perfectly normal for a woman to wear the pants and man to tend to the house too if that works, its just more necessary to have two different functions, since 2 dominant people will just butt heads, and 2 submissive people would be equally disfunctional.
I am positive there is built in distortion that allows men to religiously have multiple wives, or turn their wives into slaves, etc. This is the type of thing that I say you need to just trash without feeling guilty, but you dont have to discount any other lessons that might be in the same book. Overall it appears the bible is 70% trash but maybe about 30% you can see little nuggets of wisdom shine through. (actual percentages are highly debatable)
Last edited by Borus; 11-25-2009 at 11:49 PM..
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