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If that is what you really think, explain this: My father has a masters degree in engineering. He is very good at what he does and had about 20 years of experience. He is the one behind a computer screen designing the parts to things like motorcycles, helicopters, aeroplanes, and other stuff. By the time 1999 came along. Boom, he gets laid off. He spent a year looking for a job in his field. He couldn't get one for a while. How do you explain that?
Even better, how do you explain a college student getting told "we're not hiring right now" at least 100 times? Please explain that to me.
Here is Dallas there is a very large group of people from India that come here on work Visa's because the US cannot find qualified workers. These Indians are doing low technology jobs any kid with 2 years of college could do but they do it for half the wage.
I call BS on that, those jobs should go to Americans.
People here keep emphasizing this "proper english, baggy pants" thing, but it's not always that. I've had plenty of jobs but have not been capable of keeping them because of my thought process. A person's mental instability will eventually put them out of work. I know most people don't like mentioning this, but quite a few blacks do suffer with different types of mental disorders--depression, bipolar, antisocial, etc. I wonder how many of these unemployed black men have underlying mental health issues?
This is probably the most substantive post I have seen in this thread so far. People can lob all of the anecdotal quips they'd like about blacks. But the above is a HUGE unaddressed problem in society vis a vis the black community. Sure, it is much much easier to write off black males as dyfunctional, invalids and criminals. But psychological research would likely tell us otherwise if assessment standards are applied ubiquitously. There are tremendous mental illnesses at play in the young black community that go unnoticed and unaddressed as parents work (and party). They too have fallen into the disparate trap of accepting that black youth are simply beyond repair.
It isnt even difficult to connect the dots between what psychological studies have concluded about EVERYONE (regardless of race) who must endure the things that many, many black youth endure and the reality of black family structures. The scars from ineffective and non existant parenting can be and often are fatal. Rather than label every psychological finding about blacks an 'excuse', I do hope that society challenges itself to look beyond the exoskeleton of black youth, and apply the same standard for measuring mental stability to black youth that it does to its other youth.
This is probably the most substantive post I have seen in this thread so far. People can lob all of the anecdotal quips they'd like about blacks. But the above is a HUGE unaddressed problem in society vis a vis the black community. Sure, it is much much easier to write off black males as dyfunctional, invalids and criminals. But psychological research would likely tell us otherwise if assessment standards are applied ubiquitously. There are tremendous mental illnesses at play in the young black community that go unnoticed and unaddressed as parents work (and party). They too have fallen into the disparate trap of accepting that black youth are simply beyond repair.
It isnt even difficult to connect the dots between what psychological studies have concluded about EVERYONE (regardless of race) who must endure the things that many, many black youth endure and the reality of black family structures. The scars from ineffective and non existant parenting can be and often are fatal. Rather than label every psychological finding about blacks an 'excuse', I do hope that society challenges itself to look beyond the exoskeleton of black youth, and apply the same standard for measuring mental stability to black youth that it does to its other youth.
I would have never guessed, but I wouldn't be surprised. Alot of things don't get noticed until it's too late. I think part of the reason many African-American youths are written off has to do more with the attitude that has been around for ages. Basically, African-Americans have been viewed as "surplus population". When Blacks could not be used as slaves, they were treated as "surplus population" as persons who didn't belong. When the factory jobs dried up and many other menial jobs were being outsourced, there was an attitude of "surplus population", but instead of Jim Crow laws, there were other things that happened, such as the crack epidemic. Yes, there are Black drug dealers in the ghetto, but how did the cocaine needed for making crack get into the ghetto? Why is it that the drug pushers get harder jail sentences(not for murder or other stuff, just dealing)? In a way, jail is often thought of as a way to deal with people who are considered "surplus population". Once a person gets out of prison, getting a job is hard to find to, which basically makes them an unemploment statistic. Usually, if a person gets desparate enough, that person will committ another crime and wind up back in the place that he was released from. In many ways, it is easier for some people to survive in prison than on the outside, because of the low employment prospects. My point? Often, some things are not noticed because it is easy to write some people off. Once African-Americans were no longer in what was considered their "prescribed role in society", African-Americans as a whole were considered obsolete in some ways. Yes, there is affirmative action, but I don't think it is helping. In fact, statistically, White women benefit the most from affirmative action. There is an education system that isn't working well. More funding might be needed but it isn't enough. The problems that are affecting the African-American community as a whole will take more than money. It is going to take real changes, not just bandages, but real solutions and real changes.
I would have never guessed, but I wouldn't be surprised. Alot of things don't get noticed until it's too late. I think part of the reason many African-American youths are written off has to do more with the attitude that has been around for ages. Basically, African-Americans have been viewed as "surplus population". When Blacks could not be used as slaves, they were treated as "surplus population" as persons who didn't belong. When the factory jobs dried up and many other menial jobs were being outsourced, there was an attitude of "surplus population", but instead of Jim Crow laws, there were other things that happened, such as the crack epidemic. Yes, there are Black drug dealers in the ghetto, but how did the cocaine needed for making crack get into the ghetto? Why is it that the drug pushers get harder jail sentences(not for murder or other stuff, just dealing)? In a way, jail is often thought of as a way to deal with people who are considered "surplus population". Once a person gets out of prison, getting a job is hard to find to, which basically makes them an unemploment statistic. Usually, if a person gets desparate enough, that person will committ another crime and wind up back in the place that he was released from. In many ways, it is easier for some people to survive in prison than on the outside, because of the low employment prospects. My point? Often, some things are not noticed because it is easy to write some people off. Once African-Americans were no longer in what was considered their "prescribed role in society", African-Americans as a whole were considered obsolete in some ways. Yes, there is affirmative action, but I don't think it is helping. In fact, statistically, White women benefit the most from affirmative action. There is an education system that isn't working well. More funding might be needed but it isn't enough. The problems that are affecting the African-American community as a whole will take more than money. It is going to take real changes, not just bandages, but real solutions and real changes.
I completely agree..and unfortunately no one wants to accept that the cycle among blacks truly did originate stemming from historical transgressions imposed upon them.
I too think that blacks should quit acting like victims. But I think there comes a time when we must bite the bullet and admit that the black culture in general WAS a victim. I know that is taboo to concede these days. But if we continue to behave as though these trends just fell out of thin air, due to some indolent disposition of blacks the problem will never get solved.
You tell me: If blacks actually believed about themselves what other races believe about them (that they are inherently slothenly animated, criminals) what expectations could they ever have for themselves?
"Well, then they should just work harder prove otherwise", you'd say. But, thats not what Im talking about. I mean, that if they truly believed they were inherently incapable of achievement the way that you or I believes that fire burns the skin. Would they really even try to prove anything? Would you be daring enough to test the flame?
They ran a report on CNN about the fact that depression and other mental disorders are woefully underaccounted for in black males. Compound the lack of father figures, absentee parents/no enforcement of education (mothers included) and violent atmosphere with self medicating (the undisputed worst way to treat mental illness) with marijuana, cocaine, alcohol, junk food, and sex, as others have already mentioned, and you have a recipe for absolute disaster. And sadly, as the kitchen burns to ashes, our society conveniently deflects blame back upon that youth for what we like to consider its innate penchant for destruction.
I completely agree..and unfortunately no one wants to accept that the cycle among blacks truly did originate stemming from historical transgressions imposed upon them.
I too think that blacks should quit acting like victims. But I think there comes a time when we must bite the bullet and admit that the black culture in general WAS a victim. I know that is taboo to concede these days. But if we continue to behave as though these trends just fell out of thin air, due to some indolent disposition of blacks the problem will never get solved.
You tell me: If blacks actually believed about themselves what other races believe about them (that they are inherently slothenly animated, criminals) what expectations could they ever have for themselves?
"Well, then they should just work harder prove otherwise", you'd say. But, thats not what Im talking about. I mean, that if they truly believed they were inherently incapable of achievement the way that you or I believes that fire burns the skin. Would they really even try to prove anything? Would you be daring enough to test the flame?
They ran a report on CNN about the fact that depression and other mental disorders are woefully underaccounted for in black males. Compound the lack of father figures, absentee parents/no enforcement of education (mothers included) and violent atmosphere with self medicating (the undisputed worst way to treat mental illness) with marijuana, cocaine, alcohol, junk food, and sex, as others have already mentioned, and you have a recipe for absolute disaster. And sadly, as the kitchen burns to ashes, our society conveniently deflects blame back upon that youth for what we like to consider its innate penchant for destruction.
I agree that one should do something about their conditions. Thinking of one's self as a victim isn't going to help. I also believe we should be asking questions about what has happened. One of the first things to be emphasized is education.That is one of the first steps to getting rid of the victimhood mentality. People need to be more educated, to have a sense of themselves. People need to ask questions. Bob Marley said "If you know your history, you'll know where you're coming from". People need to know their history. If people became more aware of their history, not just about slavery, but about the details, perhaps then, the seeds of change can start to germinate.
Alot of things have damaged the psyche of many African-Americans in this nation, and alot of it goes in cycles. It doesn't shock me that there is alot of poverty among African-Americans. Some people are out there suggesting that everything wrong in the African-American community is only within it. Some people point out the culture. Well, there is a question people need to ask themselves and find out:How did the African-American culture get the way it is now? What makes a person have a victimhood mentality? What can we do to solve these problems going on? Very few people even both to ask questions, as if everyone woke up one morning and things just happen to be that, like you mentioned, some people believe this stuff came out of thin air. Or like the bumpersticker said "stuff happens"(I can't give the real version on CD). I know better than that. Stuff gets DONE to people, and alot of stuff has been done to people, but few people want to believe that because it goes against the believe of what America is about. If that were true, then poverty rates among African-Americans would be at the same level as Whites. There would not have been any slavery or Jim Crow segregation. Sometimes, otherwise nice, rational people do not want to believe the truth.
For many people, it is considered functional for them to have poor, relatively uneducated persons because of this: Some people feel that if everyone was educated and worked a good job, then no one would sweep the floors or do the other menial labor. When I think of that, it doesn't sound like a coincidence to me that schools in poorer areas(of any ethnicity) tend to be of poorer quality than schools in richer areas. What is so bad about giving everyone the same quality of education?
So now black fellas are more susceptiple to mental illness than whites?
I have quite a bit of personal experience with mental illness- not me, but many I know. Its random and organic and it knows no racial preference. To suggest such a thing is not only the epitome of ignorance, but also reeks of racism. Yes, racism. It is racist to suggest that black guy's brains are any different than whites.
Mental illness is never cured. It is managed; kept within tolerable parameters. It requires a huge marshalling of resources, both state and family- an often not so effective partnership. Considering the present deterioration of the black family, would it be so unusual that maybe mental illness amongst blacks is more visible than whites? If it actually is, which I see no evidence of whatsoever.
Mental illness strikes down people just as they are entering their prime. To use it as some sort of pathetic excuse for laziness and irresponsibility is taking scapegoating to a new low. Another chapter in the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Well, the article should read that people that drop out of school, get in trouble with the law and come from impoverished backgrounds and broken families are less likely to be employed.
They can then talk about the cultural and social drivers for disparities in this rate among different racial\ethnic groups.
I don't care what color your skin is....if you are 19 with an 10th grade education, prior arrest records, face tatoos etc. you are in for a tough job search.
A lot of it is driven by too many irresponsible uninvolved fathers and an anti-intellectual bias in a lot of poorer areas. Smart kids working hard for A's have a HARD time in many schools but especially the lower-income ones where they are routinely harrassed and assaulted. However, if you are a starter of the basketball team you are a god in the pecking order. <sigh> I've actually met a number of minorities in college with some very bitter feelings towards how they were treated in school for pursuing thier academic gifts.
Oh well, I will go to a major math competition this winter with my (white) kids and they will be in the minority when adjusted for population. The Chinese, pakistani, Indian kids (especially if they are immigrants) will be vastly over-represented and I might see one black kid there. When I go to the gym on a Sunday morning and they have kids basketball leagues the racial demographics completely flip-flop.
It's what is pushed at home and valued by the communities and frankly it's sad to see.
A lot of this is due to the fact that many of them have criminal records, and no education. Don't committ crimes and go to school and I bet the rate drops dramatically!
I'm not going to go as far as to say the reason most young black men can't find work is because they have a criminal record, lazy or have no direction. It is tough to find work in this economy. The unemployment rate is as higher as it has ever been in a lot of states, and you would expect there to be a trickle down effect as it relates to this age group. It is hard for those who have lived on the up and up to find work after being laid off. Some companies are not even offering paid internships in an effort to save money. I think we have to give these kids a break here because it is hard for eveyone.
So Sorry to hear that but what about all the minority males in that age that have the same problem.You do realize that black is no-longer a minority in the USA !
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