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You know, I've not seen so much focus on the Confederacy (even having lived in the South) anywhere as much as I've seen it on these message boards.
What's the fixation?
The Civil War fascinates everyone from racists to history buffs. - or flag collectors
Personally, I was upset they asked the MS National Guard Unit stationed in Iraq to take the MS "State" flag down because they thought it was offensive. That's what migrated me to the thread.
The reasons of the old Confederacy are gone. If the Confederate colors are the battle flag of the new rebellion, the reasons behind their rise will be a different.
For now, the Confederate flag stands for heritage.
You are welcome. You tell me, friend. You sure make a lot of double post-replies, and as soon as I brought up the word 'dup', its been mainly you replying.
If you were me, you would be thinking the same.
You would be laughed out of court, my man.
When you sign of your own volition, you bind yourself.
If you are worried about underhanded stuff, dont sign it.
The argument you are trying to make "that they didnt know what they were agreeing to" either leads to the idea that 1-They were idiots and should not have been given benefit of doubt of consideration to even sign due to lack of understanding simple agreement principle, or 2-They are renegging cheats.
Neither of those helps your confederate apologist argument.
The 2nd quote is this reply was not mine, and you must have conveniently over-looked my reply immediately before the one you quoted first in this reply.
I don't know "troll tricks" because I am not a Troll. I have no motivation to be dishonest, and I expect the same of others.
If you'd go back to my afore mentioned post, you'll find that I conceded to a portion of your argument.
I have never claimed to know everything, and I am always willing to listen and learn.
The last part of your reply is nothing short of argumentative tripe.
You know, I've not seen so much focus on the Confederacy (even having lived in the South) anywhere as much as I've seen it on these message boards.
What's the fixation?
I can only state my own opinion, so anyone is welcome to add or correct.....
Seeing the anti-confederate sentiments expressed throughout this thread that continue to spout racism and treason speaks volumes as to why it is easier to debate, faceless, across the miles.
There is one person (at least) that would be willing to fight me and attempt to tear up my flag rather than listen to rational dialog.
The reasons of the old Confederacy are gone. If the Confederate colors are the battle flag of the new rebellion, the reasons behind their rise will be a different.
For now, the Confederate flag stands for heritage.
Great comment
But the new Rebels still honor and respect American Heritage, with reguard to race. Yes the CSA is gone, but the Battle Flag still stands for FREEDOM for all.
Great comment
But the new Rebels still honor and respect American Heritage, with reguard to race. Yes the CSA is gone, but the Battle Flag still stands for FREEDOM for all.
Um... including black people? And the brown people we continue bombing? And the yellow people we used to bomb? Where does this FREEDOM manifest itself aside from our FREEDOM to bomb the **** out of whomever we want?
I've commented on this to some other people attempting to interpret the constitution.
First, I am not saying you don't have a point.
Much of our Constitution's interpretation is decided by the Supreme Court.
It would have been very interesting indeed if the subject of Secession had been resolved in the Supreme Court rather than on the battlefields.
But, de facto, it was decided by force of arms. Modern day "secessionists' (who tend to be vocal or not depending on which party is in power at the time) can argue this on and on, but some of the historic facts are:
In 1788, the Constitution's adoption superseded the idea that the States were a loose confederation of autonomous sovereign entities attempting to cooperate.
During the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794, President George Washington set a federal supremacy precedent (testing, essentially federal supremacy clause in the constitution) by pointedly ordering a federally activated force composed of militias from multiple states, under his personal command, to quell an armed insurrection in Pennsylvania (rather than just asking the Pennsylvania governor to "please take care of this for us, since it's your state.")
The clause prohibiting states from entering into independent treaties, confederacies, etc, is open to some interpretation but, I don't think it would take advanced legal scholarship to argue that, by virtue of attempting to form another entity that is essentially "foreign" (that is, the CSA), and entering into said confederacy, their acts could be interpreted as unconstitutional.
But. as there is no legal precedent (aside from the war and who won it), this is an open ended debate.
And you understand that Lincoln was not going to let the issue of secession go to court? Because a Supreme Court under Taney would have decided in favor of secession? You do understand that?
Another example was the claimed CSA agenda of taking over Mexico and Cuba for the purpose of expanding slavery. The link you offered was a general wiki source that didn't support your position at all, and only showed the general expansionist policies of the United States.
While I agree with almost everything you've got, this part here has some validity...
Not sure whether it was from Shelby Foote or another source I was reading, but it seems there were definately some in the Confederate government who most certainly did have designs on something of this nature (Jefferson Davis among them, although his positions on a few major items shifted a few times so I can't say without further examination what his final position was on this, but....).
While I agree with almost everything you've got, this part here has some validity...
Not sure whether it was from Shelby Foote or another source I was reading, but it seems there were definately some in the Confederate government who most certainly did have designs on something of this nature (Jefferson Davis among them, although his positions on a few major items shifted a few times so I can't say without further examination what his final position was on this, but....).
I agree, Mr. Butler, just like the entire country, the CSA was looking to expand their borders. I'm not attempting to claim they didn't have their eye on expansion.
However, the premise was forwarded that the sole purpose of this expansion was to forward slavery. This I believe to be quite false, and merely empty revisionist history and rhetoric, further propeganda meant to paint the CSA in colours that are simply not there.
I'm new here, but have been lurking for years now and finally decided to join. Anywho being a decendent of Robert E. Lee I always had a positive opinion of the south and Confederate flag. Now with alot of recent events (Ole Miss klan protest on the 21st) making the flag look as bad as it has in the past I just don't know what to think of it.
However seeing alot of hate towards both I just get stuck in mental ruts in what to think of it. And sometimes have trying periods that try to make sense of it all. Heck just a quick search on the web you can find the most vile and hateful things about the south and everything related.
I've never really been to the south before (unless you count East Texas) but I would really like to see it one day. But I have met countless people from there and I thought they were spectacular.
A Confederate flag was never flown on a slave trade vessel from the United States,only the American flag was flown on US flagged ships in the slave trade.
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. And sometimes have trying periods that try to make sense of it all. Heck just a quick search on the web you can find the most vile and hateful things about the south and everything related.