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View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty?
Yes, for murder as well as other serious crimes (such as rape) 53 36.55%
Yes, but only for convicted murderers 40 27.59%
No, I instead support life imprisonment 52 35.86%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-11-2009, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,455,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
If it were true, would it not be true for all states without the DP. I have shown that not to be true.

For example, Iowa's murder rate is higher than Nebraska.
Any sample will be better the more people are included. Care to average DP states vs. non-DP states? Care especially to weight the extent to which the death penalty is actually used in each state and see what the results then would be?

I don't have the time to do that, and I'm guessing you don't have the incentive.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,593,340 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Actually,Nebraska had 68 murders in 2008:Nebraska Crime Rates 1960 - 2008
Iowa had 76:Iowa Crime Rates 1960 - 2008

Either way, it is Nebraska with the higher murder rate than Iowa.

Michigan and Indiana are outliers.

Most of the southern states have high murder rates and those are the states with the death penalty.
I took my data from the FBI UCR. Your site says they take their data from the FBI UCR.

Table 20 - Crime in the United States 2008 (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_20.html - broken link)

So Michigan and Indiana are outliers because you don't like the numbers?

I already mentioned the southern states having a higher crime rate but I think most would agree that it has much more to do with illegal immigrants and drug trafficking than the DP.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,593,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
If the death penalty was an effective deterrent then there would be no pre-meditated murders in those states that practice it.
You might as well say, "if prison was an effective deterrent then there would be no robberies, assaults, arson in states that had prisons".
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,593,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Exactly. The death penalty is not a deterrent. In some ways, it is just a form of revenge.
And a way to make sure they never commit the same crime again.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,593,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
Any sample will be better the more people are included. Care to average DP states vs. non-DP states? Care especially to weight the extent to which the death penalty is actually used in each state and see what the results then would be?

I don't have the time to do that, and I'm guessing you don't have the incentive.
Let me make this easy on you.

Neither NJ nor ND have the death penalty.

NJ violent crime rate is 355.7 per 100,000 according to 2004 numbers.
ND violent crime rate is 79.4 per 100,000 according to 2004 numbers

Why the difference?
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:34 AM
 
72,875 posts, read 62,362,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
I took my data from the FBI UCR. Your site says they take their data from the FBI UCR.

Table 20 - Crime in the United States 2008 (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_20.html - broken link)

So Michigan and Indiana are outliers because you don't like the numbers?

I already mentioned the southern states having a higher crime rate but I think most would agree that it has much more to do with illegal immigrants and drug trafficking than the DP.
I went to the Omaha police reports. Omaha had 42 murders from January 2008 through November 2008, so 22 murders in Nebraska could not have been accurate, unless you discount Omaha:http://www.co.douglas.ne.us/omaha/po...-08offense.pdf

I never said the death penalty was the cause of high murder rates. I said that the death penalty doesn't work to deter crime. That is why I brought up the Southern states. The death penalty is there and the southern states have always had the highest violent crime rates in the USA, and the South has never had a high immigrant population.
And I will admit it, I am against the death penalty.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:36 AM
 
72,875 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
And a way to make sure they never commit the same crime again.
Let's agree to disagree. You are for the death penalty and I am against it.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:40 AM
 
Location: DFW
40,936 posts, read 49,025,568 times
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The death penelty is not a deterrent.

It is justice and closure for the victims families as much as that is possible.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:49 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,861,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
Let me make this easy on you.

Neither NJ nor ND have the death penalty.

NJ violent crime rate is 355.7 per 100,000 according to 2004 numbers.
ND violent crime rate is 79.4 per 100,000 according to 2004 numbers

Why the difference?
Different demographic, economic, and cultural factors.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:56 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,861,625 times
Reputation: 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
Lets us look for example at some neighboring, similar states.

Nebraska and Iowa
Nebraska has the DP and Iowa does not.
Nebraska population is 1.78 million
Iowa population is 3 million
Nebraska 2008 murders were 22
Iowa 2008 murders were 74

Iowa without the DP has a higher murder rate.

Uh, Nebraska might have the death penalty, but it rarely uses it and there is a fair amount of discussion regarding the abolition of capital punishment in Nebraska.
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