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Anyway, I have a question: Why do you care if gay people get married? Are gay people infringing on your rights, pursuit of happiness,etc.? Are gays getting married going to disrupt your life or somehow bother you?
All other arguments aside I have to say that this is the Pro-Gay Marriage line of reasoning that really bothers me.
The anology I usually use is this: What did the blacksmith in Colombia, South Carolina care if the colonies were under British rule or were independent? It didn't affect him one way or the other.
HOWEVER, many people just like this picked up arms and fought on one side or the other because, in the end, they had an opinion on the matter and fought for what they believed...
Political apathy isn't a reason to just say, "Well, okay. We should allow it because it doesn't affect me...".
It's a lame excuse. Rather than claim that those against should allow it because "It won't affect them.", why isn't the onus put on those that are FOR gay marriage to prove why it SHOULD be allowed?
Other arguments I've seen that get me are the, "Well there aren't a lot of people out there that WANT to enter into an incestuous marriage.", so it's a stupid comparison...
So we dictate laws now based on the SIZE of the minority that are supposedly being "oppressed"?
Also, if incestuous marriage is outlawed because of potential harm to offspring, should we also forbid someone with Down Syndrome from marrying?
All other arguments aside I have to say that this is the Pro-Gay Marriage line of reasoning that really bothers me.
The anology I usually use is this: What did the blacksmith in Colombia, South Carolina care if the colonies were under British rule or were independent? It didn't affect him one way or the other.
Are you kidding me?
Are you comparing two guys getting married to British colonial control over America???
The Blacksmith had a lot to worry about because the British power infringed on his Freedoms, right to the pursuit of happiness, lack of representation, etc. etc.
I feel the Blacksmith's pain. He obviously somehow got to America because he wanted freedom from England and wanted to be free of religious persectuion among other stuff and NOW in America we have some people persecuting people based on THEIR OWN religion.
Maybe YOU believe that Government should control moral values and such, but I sure don't. I don't like Government telling me what my moral values should be, how kids should be raised, what my religion should be, etc. etc.
Are you comparing two guys getting married to British colonial control over America???
One of the reasons why it's hard to discuss this with someone who's intensely emotional about the topic is that they take any analogy and use this tactic.... "Are you saying that you think gays are like DOGS?".
Understand that the use of an analogy/metaphor is a comparison in the relationship between two things, NOT a cross comparison between the things/people used in the analogy and the actual things/people it's referring to...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GayCharlotteGuy
The Blacksmith had a lot to worry about because the British power infringed on his Freedoms, right to the pursuit of happiness, lack of representation, etc. etc.
The Blacksmith in Colombia, SC didn't give a whit about these things. No matter who the ultimate government was, they were going to be making about the same amount of money and paying taxes to SOMEONE. They were left alone out there.
The big hubub was from wealthy merchants in the major port cities. To the guy that made horseshoes for local farms the issues that led to revolution couldn't have technically AFFECTED him less....
Regardless. The point is that many STILL had an opinion on the matter and many fought for one side or the other in support of their opinion.
Same thing is occurring here. That's all I'm saying. So the claim that people should allow gay marriage to be legalized because it won't affect them if it's legal is bogus IMO. If you have an opposing opinion on the matter, you should oppose it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GayCharlotteGuy
I feel the Blacksmith's pain. He obviously somehow got to America because he wanted freedom from England and wanted to be free of religious persectuion among other stuff and NOW in America we have some people persecuting people based on THEIR OWN religion.
"Persecuting"? The gay man or woman has the same rights as any other man or woman.
The kicker is that they want their RELATIONSHIP to someone of the same sex rubber-stamped as the same as a hetero-sexual one.
That there is a difference is undeniable, BUT, to some the difference shouldn't ultimately matter and to some it should...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GayCharlotteGuy
Maybe YOU believe that Government should control moral values and such, but I sure don't. I don't like Government telling me what my moral values should be, how kids should be raised, what my religion should be, etc. etc.
( I believe in God btw)
Me neither... That's what they are attempting to legislate if they claim that gay marriage is the same as hetero marriage IMO.
That blade cuts both ways.
Edit: Feel the need to clarify my last statement. To me, it isn't some great "moral question". It's simply legislating to things as the same that aren't IMO... I think it's important enough to note. I'm not on the wagon of the "homosexuality is immoral" crew.
Last edited by Rhett_Butler; 03-04-2010 at 09:33 AM..
Given that the majority of documented incest are between men and women, I fail to see how gay marriage would make incestuous marriage more likely.
I also take issue with the reasoning I've read on CD topics that civil unions between gay people are preferred over marriage because there's less of a threat of incestuous unions, bestial unions etc. The logic fails, because by that specious reasoning, incestuous people would immediately demand civil unions based on that gay civil union.
Take a look at other countries where gay marriages have been occurring for several years. Any incestuous ones? Nope. Any bestial ones? Nope.
Any polyamourous ones? Nope. The push for polyamory (of which proponents are straight - we have a mormon breakaway sect here in BC, currently in legal hotwater) was occurring long before there was any blip of gay marriage on the horizon. They site the Old Testament etc in their arguments. The last thing they'd want is to be compared to anything gay, which to them is a massive sin.
-Doug
PS gay men and women DO NOT have the same rights as any other man or woman in the US.
I voted for Prop 8** but I do not hate gays. I don’t hate my siblings either, despite my vehement objections to sibling marriage.
**The redefining of marriage to include same-sex couples is a foreign concept in the cumulative of human history.
As far as I am concerned, any two human beings able to make a rational choice without coercion can enter into any contractual relationship they want. And furthermore, they can call it whatever they want.
If two siblings-slash-screwballs want to enter into such a contract and call it marriage, it doesn't affect me.
The government needs to simply stick to building roads, providing national security, and otherwise staying out of our lives.
Social "conservatives" are NOT conservatives; they are activists! True conservatives adhere to "live and let live"!
Last edited by MasterOfPuppets; 03-04-2010 at 09:51 AM..
As far as I am concerned, any two people can enter into any contractual relationship they want. And furthermore, they can call it whatever they want.
If two siblings-slash-screwballs want to enter into such a contract and call it marriage, it doesn't effect me.
The government needs to simply stick to building roads, providing national security, and otherwise staying out of our lives.
Ultimately I think this is where we'll have to go with this one.
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