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Your post made me laugh, you are making so many assumptions, all without merit. Why is a poster such as myself such a strong supporter of equal rights for all? Um, ......because I support equal rights for all. Maybe I have gay parents, gay children, gay friends. Maybe I am bisexual, maybe my husband is. Maybe I hope for a better future for my children's generation where there is much less bigotry. You can believe whatever you want about people who support the notion of gay marriage and equality, but what some stranger on a message board thinks of me doesn't factor into the equation one bit whether they agree with my opinions, or disagree with them. If you are against gay marriage, so be it, but to assume you KNOW what motivates supporters of gay marriage, and gay rights in general is arrogant in the extreme.
Hmmm, getting defensive? Why do you assume I meant you? Why do you assume that I meant EVERYONE? I haven't even seen you post in this thread since I joined it, so how could you possibly think I was referring to you UNLESS I struck a chord? Why does it matter if you know somebody who's gay, sire gay offspring, have gay parents, have gay friends?
Fact is it doesn't. In fact I have WAY less respect for people if they feel one way and then change because it suddenly affects them or somebody they love. That shows a complete lack of empathy and I simply don't relate to it.
Beyond that I'm quite a student of social constructs and social mentality. I see it and deal with it every day and yes, there is a tendency to over-compensate in order to prove to minorities that you "have no problem" with them. It goes beyond the discrimiation issue to a point where you will see people support ANYTHING they say just so you won't have to be "against" and possibly have even the slightest perception that you aren't in full support of the minority... It happens on message boards, at parties, you name it... If you haven't witnessed kissing up to minorities in social groups then you haven't been paying attention.
If you wish to argue that, perhaps, I over-compensate in the other direction? We can discuss it. I won't discount the possibility.
Whatever. Doesn't concern me. I don't really care WHY you are for or against gay marriage. I was more commenting to the point that people giving out "rep" points somehow means something in this discussion. Again, I guarantee you they are posting their names with those comments to make SURE that they are seen and noted. (People amuse me... )
Again though, you presume that I'm for denying anyone their "rights". I don't expect you to read up on all of my opinions, but I'm not against granting anyone their due rights. I'm just against our government dictating two things that are not the same as "the same". They aren't. I'm all for the granting of Civil Unions and equivelent rights under that heading however.
It's funny that we are a nation that supposedly prides ourselves on our diversity, we laud people for going out and celebrating their diversity, but yet, when it comes to an issue like this we had BETTER declare them all the SAME or we're somehow discriminating... It baffles me...
Sure, let's put gay marriage and straight marriage all under the same heading and then scratch our heads during the next "gay pride" parade and wonder why they NOW want to celebrate how "different" they are...
Marriage is not an exclusively religious ceremony. Atheist heterosexual couples are allowed to "marry" without any issues or protests from the religious community. Christians didn't invent marriage or the word "marriage". And the concept of a lifelong monogamous sexual partnership/relationship has been around for thousands of years and in almost every culture on this planet.
Marriage is two adult human beings exchanging vows to be a permanent romantic/sexual couple. And the guests at this wedding ceremony are witnessing them giving their promise to each other.
And if it could be proven that there is no god, that he is just an imaginary being... what then? Would that mean that all marriages on this planet, past and present, are invalid? And if this were the case, I would say that these marriages would still be valid, since the premise of marriage is primarily that exchange of vows between two consenting adult human beings agreeing to be sexually exclusive to each other.
While I agree with the majority of your post, your stated "premise of marriage" is no more valid than his statement of it being a "religious ceremony"...
Sexual exclusivity tends to be an understood aspect of marriage, but is no more a necessary component than love is...
In fact, if you discount the religious aspect of marriage, all your left with is a social agreement witnessed by the government that offers some tax incentives, monetary and property rights as well as defining who "family" is. It's our traditions that dictate the rest.
I support the right of siblings to marry. I doubt it would have any impact on society to permit such a thing and I cannot fathom why it's any of my business to try to stop them. Very few brother/sister combinations would exist due to the fact that most people are aesthetically disgusted by the concept of marrying their own sibling. Ancient taboos against these relationships, rooted in the need for genetic variation, are obsolete. We have so much genetic diversity in modern society that there's no threat to us as a species if siblings mate.
Let consenting adults marry whomever they choose. If it's not hurting you directly then it's none of your business to tell others what they can or cannot do.
That's quite a prediction. You must also believe that the U.S. Supreme Court (who will hear the case in a few years, probably) will not overturn the bans.
Keep in mind that when Loving v. Virginia was decided, 70% of Americans were against interracial marriage.
Yes California Prop 8 is in the California Supreme Court and will be in the SCOTUS in about 2 years , but I believe that the SCOTUS will uphold Prop 8 because GAYS aren't stripped of their's CIVIL RIGHTS as Blacks and Whites and Other Races were in the BAN AGAINST INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE. CALIFORNIA GAYS HAVE DOMESTIC
PARTNERSHIPS Which Gives Them All The RIGHTS of MARRIAGE at least as far as the STATE OF CALIFORNIA CAN. CALIFORNIA two LEGISLATIVE Bodies and the CALIFORNIA Supreme Court (support) GAYS MARRIAGE and ALSO The Mayor of San Francisco , but the people of CALIFORNIA DOES NOT and that's my friend is why GAY MARRIAGE is not LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA.
Newsflash: Even if a separate category is made for "civil unions," (not sure on the constitutionality of that "separate but equal" designation), all the gay people, all their friends and family, are STILL going to say, "We're getting married." Pop culture will reference it as marriage, magazines, TV, etc etc. Your children will start talking about the gays getting married, and all the handwringers and moralizers will be starting threads about, "It's called gay UNIONS, not MARRIAGE! Why are the liberals trying to ignore the law?"
In about 20 years or so, a LOT of antiquated ideas will "die." Death of antiquated ideas = a good thing.
I guess society can delay the inevitable if it will help y'all die content and happy that THE GAYS didn't redefine marriage while you were alive.
GAYS will never redefine the "institution of Marriage" in the vast majority of the United States , the sad thing about it is that CIVIL UNION and DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP are being OUTLAWED In Some STATES.
Why can't the definition of marriage just be "the union of TWO consenting ADULTS". PERIOD! I don't understand why people have to assume that gay marriage will open the door to marrying your dog. It is ridiculous and very sad.
Why can't GAYS accept Domestic Partnership or Civil Unions if they have the SAME CIVIL RIGHTS as HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGES
So, some people disagree that AA's were freed and should be slaves again. Hate and disagreement can be the same
You simply don't know what you're talking about. It's sad.
Only a insane person would disagree that AA weren't freed from Slavery , and that person wouldn't count anyways.
The difference is in attitude and in action. If I know somebody I work with is openly into the "incest scene" then I will not go out of my way to harass and or shun that person. If they do a good job and remain polite to me at most all times, then there isn't a problem. If they try to invite me over for dinner or for an orgy with their incestuous partner, then I will politely decline and say "No thanks".
I will not be picketing their funeral if they happen to pass away. I will not be complaining and whining to my boss like a little baby about it. I might see it as strange and inappropriate because I wouldn't do that with my family but like I said I will not go out of my way to shun, obstruct, or harm that individual with harassment or rudeness. And if any of you were good Christians, you would be praying for them, not obstructing and trying to cause harm. But then again a lot of Christians are great at obstructing and causing harm.
That seems to be the ways of bigots. They disagree or dislike your "lifestyle" and then they try to obstruct and harm you in insidious and covert fashions. Then all the bigots give each other high fives when the "homosexual" or "weird one" has been harassed or shunned out of their job, college, social network, or blacklisted. It still happens and it is really pathetic.
If you want to base your ethical decisions on The Bible, then you would have to follow through with all of this:
Leviticus 26:29 'Further, you will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters you will eat.
We can't follow the old Testament , just the New Testament
Lamentations 2:20 See, O LORD, and look! With whom have You dealt thus? Should women eat their offspring, The little ones who were born healthy? Should priest and prophet be slain In the sanctuary of the Lord?
Old Testament
Lamentations 4:10 The hands of compassionate women Boiled their own children; They became food for them Because of the destruction of the daughter of my people.
Old Testament
And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
Old Testament
Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."
Old Testament
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Old Testament Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. —Luke 16:18
Misappling of Scriptures , if you Divorce without just CAUSE.
• When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Old Testament
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. (Eph. 6:5-6)
Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-10)
Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God's approval. (1Pet. 2:18-29)
Paul the Authority in these three passage of Scripture ALSO TOLD THE MASTER TO "RESPECT THE SLAVE" As He Would RESPECT THE "APOSTLE PAUL HIMSELF" when you put it into context , that revolutionary statement put SLAVERY ON A WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL. and who was doing away with Slavery 2,000 years ago.
DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21 If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
• DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
Old Testament
• MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
Unjustly Divorced..being deserted is grounds for DIVORCE , so is ADULTRY...
• LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
Old Testament
• MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
Old Testament
• DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.
“He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.” Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, “Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.”
Old Testament , something that CHRISTIANS DON"T FOLLOW..
Old Testament , something that CHRISTIANS DON"T FOLLOW..
The loss of Freedom is the loss of ability to marry like everyone else, and have your relationship "something else" under the law.
Marriage isn't the issue EQUAL CIVIL RIGHTS is the issue , so Domestic Partnerships grants GAYS EQUAL RIGHTS.
If Muslims were given a different driver license than anyone else, but had all the same privileges, would they have any less technical freedom?
Muslims and everyother race get different types of drivers licenses depending on what type of vehicle they are driving. If a GAY man MARRIES a woman he gets a MARRIAGE LICENSE If He Forms A Civil Union with another man He's Gets A Domestic Partnership.
When blacks had to use the coloureds fountain, they could still drink the same water as whites.... just at a different spot.
Absolutely Not ! the pipes many times weren't drinking water pipes but inferior pipes with water that was intended for other purposes.
Were they any less free, technically?
If you put two identical drinking fountains side by side (one) for Whites and (one) for AA That Would Be Separtion But Equality.
Is either situation "right"?
Both parties would be doing the exact same thing , this isn't the case with Homosexual Marriage , the activities wouldn't be exactually the same.
So what should be done? Strip them of their marriage? When he became pregnant the first time, he appeared on Oprah.
(this should be interesting)
No This Will Be Very Simple , leave them MARRIED they were Male and Female when they started out at the Beginning , and could change back into what she was at any time.
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