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Old 07-16-2012, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,259,715 times
Reputation: 16939

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REPLY TO inventor 1
"so I see you are the decider of who in the family gets the money. what if the kids already passed awy because they fought in the war but the grand kids were still alive? should we also forget about what happened there in Germany because it was so long ago? and same with slavery in the USA. should we just write it out of the history books."

That was the rules in payment of reperations. I didn't make them. The widows of the 350 US POW's did not get a cent, ONLY those where the primary was alive. The reperation was to them, not the family. And nobody has said anyone should forget. Germany teaches its past to its youth. It's not a secret. Don't even bring up Japan since we don't want the thread towed totally off topic.

As for slavery, yes, it happened, at first to both white and black people. Why is the beginnings with poor white children in London swept off the street dismissed by some as 'not relavant'? But NOBODY who owned slaves is alive now nor their children. And a grand total of less than one percent were ever slave owners. It was a bad institution, and we all know that. Nobody glorifies it. But nobody today is *responsible* and nobody should feel guilty.

Yes, I've had people who suck hurt me. What makes life better is letting them go and going on and not giving them a victory. Wise up. Nobody is impressed by all the calls for guilt.

"we have been hiring defacto whites for several hundred years, there were many people more qualified for many jobs for several hundred years. again till education is provided equally for all that again is just another righty poll tax system to keep theirs above all others.. all people are equal when given equal chances"

So what? That was several hundred years ago and people who are all dead. But you make rules if you want to be fair, you make them equally fair. And there is NOTHING wrong with verifying that an employee can do the job. Many companies give tests no matter how glowing the story. People lie to employers. If someone wants training for a job they should get it first and not be trained on the job and make it hard for everyone else. The guy I worked with would have flunked a first semester programming class and did not belong in the job and he made it hard for everyone else. Nor was he interested in help. He should have been fired early on. A black guy who knew how to write and compile a simple program in less than *three* months of trying would not have been a problem and I'm sure one existed.

"all people are equal when given equal chances, you are only superior because you never allowed equality. you have used all your benefits you aquired to keep education and so on from the blacks."

Ugh, I went to community college. I wanted to go to a university but after being sick for about seven years couldn't spend the time. I still dream of getting the degree I want but there doesn't seem to be that important now. Any black student could have taken any of the same classes I did and go through the employment office at the school. I didn't stop ANYONE from getting and education. Or learning how to get a decent job. Nor did I ever say anything about superior. Try knocking the chip off your shoulder and quit makeing useless accusations.

"Lets start this way so you understand, ride under the bus from now on. wow, and there was no concentration camps either I never saw one. boy my point went way over your head.... do you for a minute think I was talking bout just busses.... wow...

Not just busses, but those limitations are gone. You think I'm from the south, right? wrongo, California. Talk about assumptions. My point was that when its fifty years later and those things are gone you don't go around ranting about stuff people today did NOT do to you. Your really want to help, chill out and show the world what you can do.

"wow... it has been working for rush for 20 some years and I do not hear rightys saying he on a national show should not be calling clinton names, attacking the presidents teenage daughters and wives... in fact he is setting records for righty love of hate talk. when you shut his ignorant mouth I will stop calling rightys rightys"

Rush is disgusting. He's an overblown pill addict who gets his thrill by calling people names. And there are those who just suck it up. Don't listen and nobody is going to in my own space. I consider him a disgrace. But I do NOT call people names even if they act like idiots and call others them (from either side of the divide). You devalue everything you say when you start the name calling, just like he does.

"Left up to you the KKK should be the rule maker.. yes you seem to be of the nature of taking great pleasure in more harm to minorities."

The KKK is a bunch of bigots, and I'm sure they are watched. No, they should not make the rules. And how is it harm to a minority to say they need to quit the pity party and look forward? There will always be bigots and malcontents, and you have to look *past* them. Make your plans, look ahead and don't let the naysayers stop you. Generations of human beings have known that and not allowed idiots to stop them. And you assume that its easy for anyone 'white' to succeed and go on about it as if this is going to accomplish something. But in the end, all you get is looked at a sad and angry man.

Rant on, but the audience had been fading away for awhile.

Last edited by nightbird47; 07-16-2012 at 12:26 AM..

 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:30 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,259,715 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
The reality is by the 18th century indentured servants and white slaves were pretty rare. By the nineteenth century they were virtually non-existent. This doesn't take away from what they experienced but it pales in comparison to the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade in it's magnitude and duration.
True, the duration of the practice was limited past the 1700's by the United States, but not in other areas where the same ships who shipped slaves continued to ship convicts and immigrants who had to enter an indenture. And the conditions were not that different for the majoriity of those who came in the 1700's as convicts, the major group. They were transported on ships normally and sometimes interchangeably used to transport slaves. By 1800's cheaper slaves had reduced the 'servant trade' to a trickle, usually willing takers. However the British were busily populating Australia by then with their convicts and poor and unwanted.

Actually, the 1700's was a time of transititon. The price of Africans had dropped, but not enough to replace all the needed labor force, especially along the Chesapeake area. The plantations had begun to prefer them but they were still in need of 'servants'. However the 'free willers had pretty much dried up, especially since word had gotten home about what awaited them. Some who were desperate came in small amounts but the 'servant' trade was drying up.

However, English gaols were way past full. Convicts had been shipped before in small amounts, but they had a better idea. In 1718 the Transportation act was passed. Those convicted of 'minor' crimes, which essencially amounted to small thefts to survive, were to be sentenced to become 'His magisty's Seven year passangers'. It did not require their permission or even a bogus mark on an indentrue. the first shipment left in 1718 with fifteen men and thirteen women convicted of minor property crimes. Major property crimes (thefts over a certain value, very carefully defined) were subject to hanging. The ships recieved five pounds a head for transporting them so they could be sold cheap, as they already had a profit. They were to fill in the gap. Sentences were seven years, fourteen years, or life. Many capital sentences were negotiated down to one of the last two.

There company who shipped them shipped slaves, and used the same ship and the same methods. As they came pre-paid, it was highly profitable. For some of the companies who shipped both, they made much more on the 'servant' trade.

They poured into the ports, were taken to the square and publically sold just as slaves were. As convicts eventually they were permenantly made into second class citizens, denying them the right to vote even if they had property. They were not used with other 'servants' but in mixed labor gangs with African slaves and shared the work, the accomidations and the punishment. The survival rate of convict slaves was about fifty percent. In a period where the transition was turning to prefering Africans but the price was often too high, white covicts were dirt cheap and easily replaced.

The trip was as horrendous as with black slaves, and under identical conditions and ships. There were notable uprisings on convict ships, so they were heavily staffed. Early on about a third never made it to port. At the time of boarding official propery rights to the convicts were transfered to the ship's captain. They died they still got the five pounds a head.

The primary buyers were along the coast where large labor gangs were used, and they joined African slaves as equals in all but name. Maryland and Virginia were the primary takers, Pennsulvania a more distant third. More northen factories also used them. Runaways were frequent and frequently mixed groups of black and white slaves. G. Washington published one two days after having become commander of the new revolution's army for two black and 8 whites who had run. The race card did not work well for convicts, especially as while conditions improved for non-convicts, they didn't for them.

The practice of shipping convicts who legally could NOT refuse is far closer to that of sometimed duped free willers and desperatly poor. They were guarenteed even if they survived the scorn of the citizenry. The standard method of punishment, besides whipping, was addition of time, double or more for the amount of time from escape to capture. A method of charging the prisoner for all cost in capturing was further converted into time. The object was to hold them as long as possible.

One of the first recorded life slaves became one because his white fellow escapee was given a multiple years after repeated escapes, and the black man was simply made a slave for life since he would require more. No doubt the other was one in practical terms by then too.

Based on record, many missing, at least 50,000 to 70,000 convicts were transported and sold to Virginia, Maryland and Barbados (and other colonies) from 1718 to 1776. This does not include the 'servants' who came on their own. After the war, the new government refused shipments as several major epidemics had been blamed on convicts. This is a very conservative estamate, but at the last decade before the revolution between 900 and a thousand arrived per year.

One in a hundred of the people of Virginia at the time of the revolution were either convicts or related to convicts. Tens of thousands of white Americans can trace descent from them. My something g grandfather arrived in 1719 in Maryland and ended up in Kentucky.

The British continued shipping their unwanted to Canada and tried to sneek them in as 'free willers, but that failed. Then Cook discovered New South Wales and the ships went the other direction. But it was still a very prosperous business for some time.

In America, a new ship design that was faster and held more 'cargo' made Africans sufficently cheap that the market for whites mostly dissapeared, but that was into the 1800's. Poor immigrants still sold themselves after the revolution, they just weren't convicts. People continued to indenture themselves until outlawed by the 13th amendment.

With ships arriving in the harbor and the open selling of the merchandise, it was less common but far from rare, and certainly very visible and hotly discussed, with a number of efforts to bar the British shipments were tried and failed. As convicts brought disease and old habits with them, the locals tried variouls means to make it too expensive but they were thrown out. The subject was both visible and discussed often. And the newspapers of the time were full of ads looking for mixed groups of runaways. The companies which commonly sold both would not have been making so much money on them if there hadn't been a market. What killed it was the epidemics of gaol fever, a deadly form of typhus, which came with them, and the desire to rid themselves of what the new citizens considered scum after the war when the British convict ships were sent away.

It was still a going business after the new US declined, so it shouldn't be infered that the practice stopped, just was overtaken by use of newly cheaper Africans in the US while the British had Australia to fill by then.

For those hauled across the seas, either to the colonies or Australia, their experience should not be lessened as human beings just because they came at the end (for the US). The Servant trade was largely a parallel of the Triangle trade by the same companies and all of it was based on money.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 5,696,809 times
Reputation: 1480
I saw this comment on Youtube:

"I would propose that the United States is still a slave economy; the slaves simply live in other countries and are making our toys and electronics. We have made some great strides forward in this country. They're not long enough strides yet, and it will be a great day when we as a? society can make the decision that it is not worth it to exploit others for our own creature comforts."

Would you say that is accurate or no?
 
Old 11-03-2013, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joke Insurance View Post
I saw this comment on Youtube:

"I would propose that the United States is still a slave economy; the slaves simply live in other countries and are making our toys and electronics. We have made some great strides forward in this country. They're not long enough strides yet, and it will be a great day when we as a? society can make the decision that it is not worth it to exploit others for our own creature comforts."

Would you say that is accurate or no?

The answer is no. Those overseas "slaves" are doing better than they did before or they would not be working. The odds are their children will do even better. It is selfish Westerners who cry exploitation just because they can't have all the manufacturing jobs anymore. Globalization may not be great for the Western worker but it is greatly improving the lives of those in undeveloped nations.


Look at the great improvement in just one of those nations:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/gdp-per-capita
 
Old 11-03-2013, 06:41 AM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,903,758 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joke Insurance View Post
I saw this comment on Youtube:

"I would propose that the United States is still a slave economy; the slaves simply live in other countries and are making our toys and electronics. We have made some great strides forward in this country. They're not long enough strides yet, and it will be a great day when we as a? society can make the decision that it is not worth it to exploit others for our own creature comforts."

Would you say that is accurate or no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
The answer is no. Those overseas "slaves" are doing better than they did before or they would not be working. The odds are their children will do even better. It is selfish Westerners who cry exploitation just because they can't have all the manufacturing jobs anymore. Globalization may not be great for the Western worker but it is greatly improving the lives of those in undeveloped nations.


Look at the great improvement in just one of those nations:

China GDP per capita | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast
I gotta agree with whogo here:

Many countries that started making "crap" stuff quickly went up the money ladder and really upped their game. Many people in 2013 def remember when "Made in Japan" meant junk; now Made in Japan is some real high quality and expensive stuff. Same can be said about S Korea, Taiwan and now China is going up.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 06:49 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,458,643 times
Reputation: 9074
The (largely economic) benefits have largely flowed to the elites and not to working class whites = racism was invented precisely to facilitate the plunder of the working class by the elites. Let's you and him fight while I plunder both of you.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 5,696,809 times
Reputation: 1480
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
The answer is no. Those overseas "slaves" are doing better than they did before or they would not be working. The odds are their children will do even better. It is selfish Westerners who cry exploitation just because they can't have all the manufacturing jobs anymore. Globalization may not be great for the Western worker but it is greatly improving the lives of those in undeveloped nations.


Look at the great improvement in just one of those nations:

China GDP per capita | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast
You hit it right on the mark.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 07:30 AM
 
275 posts, read 178,529 times
Reputation: 56
The Unpopular Truth: "Racist" -- A Word Invented by USSR's Leon Trotsky

Trotsky first used the word Racist in his book The History of the Russian Revolution,so being called a racist which is a word invented by a communist should be a badge of honor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
Polite white folks renounce such claims of superiority. But scratch below that surface politeness and the multicultural rhetoric of most white people, and one finds that the assumptions about the superiority of the art, music, culture, politics, and philosophy rooted in white Europe are still very much alive.

No poll can document these kinds of covert opinions, but one hears it in the angry and defensive reaction of white America when non-white people dare to point out that whites have unearned privilege. Watch the resistance from white America when any serious attempt is made to modify school or college curricula to reflect knowledge from other areas and peoples.

That resistance also helps white Americans ignore and/or rationalize the racialized disparities in the distribution of resources.


Funny how Most of Americans largest companies are ran by whites. Not to mention most of Amercas wealth is in the hands of whites.

Studies continue to demonstrate how, on average, whites are more likely than members of racial/ethnic minorities to be on top on measures of wealth and well-being.

Why is that? Oh, maybe minorities just are not smart enough or work hard enough........NOT!


White America....wake up and be honest. You are benefiting from the elite whites invention known as Rascism.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Here
11,578 posts, read 13,948,459 times
Reputation: 7009
Who knew Jesse Jackson posted on C-D?
 
Old 11-22-2013, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 5,696,809 times
Reputation: 1480
This guy hit it right on target:

Quote:
No, all white people are not the blame. Enlightened black people know that black and white elitists manipulate the masses of working-class white and black people. We know that the American ruling-class rich invented racism, sexism, and classicism to divide and conquer the masses; it's nothing but manipulative, Machiavellian strategy. And if the truth be told, the elite class is composed of Blacks, Whites, Asians, and Arabs. But working-class whites and blacks are food to these people.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN8p...1oJ6X4-64tXFNg
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