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As a lifelong CA resident let me just say that I. JUST. DONT. CARE. ANYMORE.
For the recorded, I voted againt Prop 8 and have no problem with gays getting married. I am just sick and tired of this issue and wish I never had to hear about it again.
You should probably prepare yourself mentally, then, because I don't think it's going away anytime soon. We've got 50 states, the District Of Columbia, and four territories that will each have to face this issue one way or another. It's going to be a long ride.
Maybe in your dreamworld you proved me wrong, my friend. You never did it. Not even once.
No, not ok. You claimed I brought "hate" into it, I pointed out the post I was responding to, that claimed that all those who voted for Prop 8 were filled with hate and it was just fine to use such tactics. Unconscionable. You.were.wrong.
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It is a fact that the people who cannot stand two people being in love are the true hateful people here. No doubt about it. People who insist that marriage is between a man and a woman.
Marriage between a man and woman is the natural order of things. For those who want to preserve that shows love, not hate.
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Oh, you avoid answering about your age again? I want to take a guess at your age but I would not want to offend you. I am nicer than you think.
Why would that be relevant? Another deflection from as you scurry and squirm when challenged.
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Yes, my mother is very proud of me. Damn right. I am an all straight A student. I never brought the police home even once. Not pregnant before marriage. Never did any drugs. Not sleeping around with multiple boys or women for that manner. Never even been to one college dorm party. I stay clean. Been working and buying my own things and helping around the house since I was 15
Eh....is she aware of your public statements? Maybe her "approval" would change if she were.
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GOOD question. Surely there must be some way to twist it around to avoid answering. Like her age.
Meaningless and specious on your part...and completely transparent to those of us mature enough to know.
you guys can keep telling yourselves that, and 20-30 years from now you will be severely disapointed.
How old are you? Unless you are very old [over 70] you better be prepared for gay marriage because it is coming to a state like yours soon. Does that scare you?
you guys can keep telling yourselves that, and 20-30 years from now you will be severely disapointed.
No way to know that. Ten years ago when Vermont legalized civil unions, it was seen as a radical thing to do. Now, civil unions are supported by a majority of Americans; it's considered a moderate position:
Why do you care about same-sex marriage in California when you live in Illinois? What are you afraid of? Have you been overpowered by a gay man? Why are you so concerned about homosexual sex? Do you think about homosexual men often?
I have no problem with gay men. My dressage instructor was a wonderful, elegant, adorable young gay man. All the ladies loved him.
I just think marriage is between a man and a woman.
No, not ok. You claimed I brought "hate" into it, I pointed out the post I was responding to, that claimed that all those who voted for Prop 8 were filled with hate and it was just fine to use such tactics. Unconscionable. You.were.wrong.
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Marriage between a man and woman is the natural order of things. For those who want to preserve that shows love, not hate.
And who says this? You?
LOL. How does THAT show love?
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Why would that be relevant? Another deflection from as you scurry and squirm when challenged.
Because I am just wondering. I am not ashamed to tell you my age.
And I am not scurrying or squirming when challenged. I prove you wrong.
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Eh....is she aware of your public statements? Maybe her "approval" would change if she were.
My mom agrees.
Ah, so you write approval in quotes. You don't think my mom approves of me? How do you know? You talk about being mature and then claim you are a mom. You just cannot accept that a liberal child can do better than conservative ones, huh?
Perhaps it hurt a nerve because I am doing better than your children, my friend.
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Meaningless and specious on your part...and completely transparent to those of us mature enough to know.
Lol, whoa is the word then. I was not picking on you, or labeling you , in any way. I was merely asking the question, was the outcome of this vote based on hate, bigotry et al? Or, is there more to this than what we see on the surface. As I said, I did not really follow this issue to close. For one, I don't vote in CA, and this was not an issue I saw as something that would greatly effect my life, win lose or draw. However, it seems that the voters of CA saw something in this that they did not like, for whatever reason, and this leads me to believe that there is far more to this referendum than getting hitched and estate planning etc. Since this measure was so soundly defeated, (I honestly expected a sound passage) it would seem that hatred of homosexuals, bigotry against their lifestyle, religious belief etc is not the core cause of this measures defeat. Despite protestations to the contrary, CA's voting record has been overwhelmingly' liberal' in the people that get elected and the measures that pass. Going by past record, prop 8 should have sailed through, by a hefty margin.. Thus, I think there is far more to this than bigotry against homosexuals, or 'homophobia' , as some have stated. I'm going to pull up the full text of the measure, read it, and then comment further. Frankly, it eludes me as to the reason it was shot down. I just can't see the 'relgious right' , or conservative political influence, having that kind of effect on a hotbed issue such as this, in a state like CA. Not with the measures supporters being as energized as they were to get out the vote. Curiosity compells me to investigate further.
I think that by and large californians are a fair-minded bunch. in fact, the first Field poll showed the No on 8 side was winning by a comfortable margin. then the mormons and catholics caught wind of this lead and got busy by raising unprecedented amounts of $$ for a statewide proposition. they used that $$ to spread deceptive lies and whipped a torment of hate and indifference to the gay and lesbian citizens who only wanted what everyone else already had. when you have consistent propaganda saying that gays are going to ruin your children, it has a really nasty effect on the average voter. I wonder why they don't have a Prop that spells out what civil marriage is and specifically says that churches are "free to exclude same sex brides and grooms". by doing so, there would be no confusion among the religious sheeple and those voters who might be unaware of what the definition of civil marriage is and isn't.
You should probably prepare yourself mentally, then, because I don't think it's going away anytime soon. We've got 50 states, the District Of Columbia, and four territories that will each have to face this issue one way or another. It's going to be a long ride.
Well as long as it's not being played on in my neighborhood with signs on the lawns and protesters of all kinds on every major intersectin in town I'm good to go. Seriously though, I think there are some people who just LIVE for the chance to protest something and love the controversy it creates. Supid people.
I try to distance myself from debating the whole gay marriage issue, but here I go anyways..
If two people love each other, they should be together no matter what. Sure, it may be a bit awkward for some of us to accept homosexual relationships, but I know I would not want to be deprived from the one I love, nor should anyone else be.
As for the Prop 8 thing.. When left to the majority, the rights of the minority will always be suppressed. You have to go for the head of the snake - The Supreme Court, where most issues dealing with civil rights eventually go.
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Originally Posted by wehotex
Then the mormons and catholics caught wind of this lead and got busy by raising unprecedented amounts of $$ for a statewide proposition. they used that $$ to spread deceptive lies and whipped a torment of hate and indifference to the gay and lesbian citizens who only wanted what everyone else already had. when you have consistent propaganda saying that gays are going to ruin your children, it has a really nasty effect on the average voter.
Just out of curiosity here.. In what way did the Mormons and Catholics spread 'deceptive lies' in the state of CA? TV ads? Radio? It just does not seem likely that any campaign can discredit another in such a short time before an election. It took years to get the word out about the digital TV transition, the fact that those organizations could spread 'hate and lies' about gays so quickly has me curious.
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Does that scare you?
