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Old 12-09-2009, 03:30 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,045,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
the last part of the speech, the part that is always quoted, the part that is most well-known, is not his. It was taken from a black preacher named Archibald Carey, from a speech he gave at the 1952 Republican Convention.

If I were to pick the best King speech, I would pick one that was totally original and not borrowed from another source. Like his speech opposing the war in Vietnam. Probably his best ever and completely his own.
Snopes on the subject:





"The only similarity between Carey's speech, a 1952 address to the Republican National Convention, and King's speech, delivered on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C., on 28 August 1963, occurs in their perorations: both speeches end with a recitation of the first verse of Samuel Francis Smith's popular patriotic hymn "America" (composed in 1832) and a listing of several American geographic locations from which the speakers exhort their listeners to "let freedom ring":

[Carey, 1952]

We, Negro Americans, sing with all loyal Americans:

My country 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the Pilgrim's pride
From every mountainside
Let freedom ring!

That's exactly what we mean — from every mountain side, let freedom ring. Not only from the Green Mountains and White Mountains of Vermont and New Hampshire; not only from the Catskills of New York; but from the Ozarks in Arkansas, from the Stone Mountain in Georgia, from the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia — let it ring not only for the minorities of the United States, but for . . . the disinherited of all the earth — may the Republican Party, under God, from every mountainside, LET FREEDOM RING!


[King, 1968]

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:

My country 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the Pilgrim's pride
From every mountainside
Let freedom ring!

So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire!
Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York!
Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!
Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California!
But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!
Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi!
From every mountainside, let freedom ring!

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,968,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
Martin Luther King's I have a dream speech is a great one. However, the last part of the speech, the part that is always quoted, the part that is most well-known, is not his. It was taken from a black preacher named Archibald Carey, from a speech he gave at the 1952 Republican Convention.

If I were to pick the best King speech, I would pick one that was totally original and not borrowed from another source. Like his speech opposing the war in Vietnam. Probably his best ever and completely his own.
It is not originality that makes a great speech. It is appropriateness and persuasiveness.
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,571 posts, read 84,777,093 times
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Sojourner Truth, December, 1851

Modern History Sourcebook: Sojourner Truth: Ain't I a Woman
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 3,326,760 times
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I though all of these guys were good speakers. But this one seems to be one of the best.

Here is a piece of it

Quote:
We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Newark, NJ
341 posts, read 678,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
It is not originality that makes a great speech. It is appropriateness and persuasiveness.
So if the nation breaks out into another civil war and the current president gives the Gettysburg Address and tries to pass it off as his own, should we then call it a "great speech?" No; we would call it a great plagiarized speech.

I believe you are extremely mistaken about what constitutes a great speech. Of course appropriateness and persuasiveness make a great speech, anyone knows that. For example, I wouldn't advise giving a speech about the non-existence of God at the funeral of a well-known and respected bishop. It is the original, the eccentric, and the one-of-a-kind speeches that stand out, along with the prerequisites of appropriateness and being persuasive.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,968,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
So if the nation breaks out into another civil war and the current president gives the Gettysburg Address and tries to pass it off as his own, should we then call it a "great speech?" No; we would call it a great plagiarized speech.
.
"Are you a politician asking what your country can do for you or a zealous one asking what you can do for your country?"---Khalil Gibran, 1926, plagiarized by John F. Kennedy, 1962
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Newark, NJ
341 posts, read 678,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
"Are you a politician asking what your country can do for you or a zealous one asking what you can do for your country?"---Khalil Gibran, 1926, plagiarized by John F. Kennedy, 1962
Oh, you must mean the "Ask not what your country can do for you" line. Kennedy did not write/plagiarize that one. It was his speech writter Ted Sorenson. Ted Sorenson was also the author of "Profiles in Courage," the book JFK won the Pulitzer for. JFK is perhaps the only person to win the Pulitzer Prize for literature for a book that he did not even write.

(looks like you have a little more googling to do)
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,968,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Dakar View Post
Oh, you must mean the "Ask not what your country can do for you" line. Kennedy did not write/plagiarize that one. It was his speech writter Ted Sorenson. Ted Sorenson was also the author of "Profiles in Courage," the book JFK won the Pulitzer for. JFK is perhaps the only person to win the Pulitzer Prize for literature for a book that he did not even write.

(looks like you have a little more googling to do)
When Kennedy said those words, was it a great speech, or not? Were they his original words, or not? What does one have to do with the other?

Common sense does not come from "a little more googling".

I restate my point: It is not originality that makes a great speech. It is appropriateness and persuasiveness.

It was a great speech by Kennedy, notwithstanding that Sorenson wrote it, reworking a Gibran quote.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Newark, NJ
341 posts, read 678,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
When Kennedy said those words, was it a great speech, or not? Were they his original words, or not? What does one have to do with the other?

Common sense does not come from "a little more googling".

I restate my point: It is not originality that makes a great speech. It is appropriateness and persuasiveness.

It was a great speech by Kennedy, notwithstanding that Sorenson wrote it, reworking a Gibran quote.
I respectfully disagree. I think it lacks integrity.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:19 PM
 
298 posts, read 1,089,885 times
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Iv never really been a Ted Kennedy fan, but always felt touched by his eulogy at Bobby's funeral.

My brother need not be idealized, or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life; to be remembered simply as a good and decent man, who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it. Those of us who loved him and who take him to his rest today, pray that what he was to us and what he wished for others will some day come to pass for all the world. As he said many times, in many parts of this nation, to those he touched and who sought to touch him: 'Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not.'
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