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My brother and his wife adopted a Chinese baby, and they live in Europe. The adoption process, while complicated, was still much easier than trying to adopt a baby in the country they live in--I think the wait list is 5 years plus or something, rather than the 1-2 years it took them.
I don't think race matters--it's the paperwork and time that drives people to China.
Exactly that is the real reasons. It's sad the OP has tried to bring race and a bunch of nonsense into this issue. It pains me to read the responses from so many ignorant people on this thread. They have no idea or experience what adopting children is like. The adoption process in the United States is LONG, expensive and complicated. Birth parents have a lot of rights and can renege and the courts will support them and prefer their children remain with their natural parents.
Adopting an Asian baby is so much easier and cheaper. And let's be honest, little Asian babies are incredibly cute regardless of what race you are. If you are a parent desperate to have a child, why wouldn't you adopt a Chinese baby.
Cobalt, your point about restriction levels in domestic adoption vs. foreign adoption is absolutely correct.
I just want to say something about your offhand comment that older women may have put off having children to pursue their careers -- while certainly there are women who have done this, it has become, unfortunately, an unfair stereotype and as such, a conclusion that everyone jumps to when they hear of an older woman dealing with infertility. The reason it's a problem is because it leads to harsh judgments based on inaccurate data. I personally think a woman who delayed childbearing in order to pursue NOW's plans for her is deserving of compassion, but I understand that others will not have sympathy for her, but would have sympathy for an infertile woman who started trying to conceive early in her adulthood. Believe it or not, there are MANY women who started trying to have children in their 20's and 30's who just never had success for medical reasons, and have not given up, even into their 40's. I know these women because I've worked with them on a professional level and also have befriended some. By the time a woman reaches her 40's and is still doing infertility treatments or is embarking on adoption, everyone assumes that she delayed building her family for "selfish" career reasons. This is extremely unfair and in many cases, completely untrue. Couples are frequently very private about their attempts to conceive so an outsider cannot possibly know whether they have delayed building their family or whether they have actually been trying for many years. There are also miscarriages to take into account, because a doomed pregnancy can suck up precious months of a woman's life, not only the months spent in the pregnancy itself but the months spent recovering afterward before she can try again. Some women have multiple miscarriages too. When we stop to consider the tragedy of infertility and pregnancy loss, it should inspire all of us to take care not to say things that add to the pain.
Please everyone, just "make a note of it."
Well said, and this is something the public assumes or is unaware. 20% of all women over the age of 35 have difficulty conceiving a baby. What that means is MANY women in their early 30's and late 20's have difficulty conceiving a child. People think fertility problems only affect "old ladies" or women older than 40.
Another thing the sheeple in our society are unaware of is celebrities using IVF and fertility treatments to get pregnant. When a pregnant 40 yo + celebrity like Jennifer Lopez has twins, that's not a coincidence, 99% chance she had IVF or donor eggs. A lot of celebrities do this and it gives the false impression to the lay public that they can be just like these older actresses and just randomly have a kid when they are 37 or 38. The celebrities don't confess to their fertility treatments but its so common. I still laugh when a 39 yo woman just happens to have triplets...yeah right, like she didn't get IVF.
Again, the dumb sheeple on this thread don't get it. They think that all women who are older and don't have children waited because of career reasons and it's not true. Many of have simply had difficulty conceiving and didn't have the money to pursue IVF or fertility treatments or even sought a doctor until they were older. And even in those cases, for many women they simply can't conceive even with treatment.
Agree with your comments. As for the celebs, it's kind of a dilemma for them because on the one hand, all eyes are upon them so there is this "responsibility" not to mislead the public, but on the other hand, they have a right to their privacy and if their children were conceived using donated gametes or IVF treatments, they may wish for the children to have that information first, when they are old enough to understand, so that they can decide who they want to tell (rather than the whole world already knowing).
The only other thing I want to say is that it IS possible for a 39 year old to spontaneously conceive triplets, just as it IS possible for a 52 year old woman to spontaneously conceive a healthy pregnancy. It does happen, it's just very, very rare. Some women have natural fertility up until their early 50's. Dr. Neri Laufer in Israel identified a gene in certain groups of women that is responsible for this continued fertility long past the age when most women become infertile. It's important for people to know that delaying conception until the 40's will MOST LIKELY require them to use donor eggs, but it's equally important for people to realize that they should not ASSUME that every older woman used donor egg, since natural spontaneous conception is possible for some older women.
Agree with your comments. As for the celebs, it's kind of a dilemma for them because on the one hand, all eyes are upon them so there is this "responsibility" not to mislead the public, but on the other hand, they have a right to their privacy and if their children were conceived using donated gametes or IVF treatments, they may wish for the children to have that information first, when they are old enough to understand, so that they can decide who they want to tell (rather than the whole world already knowing).
The only other thing I want to say is that it IS possible for a 39 year old to spontaneously conceive triplets, just as it IS possible for a 52 year old woman to spontaneously conceive a healthy pregnancy. It does happen, it's just very, very rare. Some women have natural fertility up until their early 50's. Dr. Neri Laufer in Israel identified a gene in certain groups of women that is responsible for this continued fertility long past the age when most women become infertile. It's important for people to know that delaying conception until the 40's will MOST LIKELY require them to use donor eggs, but it's equally important for people to realize that they should not ASSUME that every older woman used donor egg, since natural spontaneous conception is possible for some older women.
Yes, and it is possible that my kid will play in the NBA. It is possible I could win the lottery. It is possible but it's highly improbable. I don't think you are aware of how low the probability of that occurring truly is. First of all, the probability of having a spontaneous birth at the age of 40 is considerably reduced. Then if you multiply that by the low probability of one having twins or even the lower probability of having triplets, the chances are less than 1 percent. To provide the impression in a young woman to wait until she is 40 to have children because it's "possible" to have a spontaneous birth is ill advised. Furthermore, the longer women wait to have children, the increased risk of trisomy occurring such as Downs Syndrome (trisomy 21). Women over the age of 35 are traditionally advised to get an aminocentesis and a triple screen to rule out Downs Syndrome. The risk of having a Downs Syndrome child increases from 1/1000 at age 30 to 1/100 at age 40 to 1/30 at age 45.
Furthermore, many women may not require a donor egg. They may have the potential to ovulate without having to use a donor egg. However, they may require insemination, in vitro fertilization or use of gonadotropins to get pregnant. So even if they are still ovulating, the chances of a spontaneous birth is still low after 40. And those procedures cost money. IVF is typically 20K on average and insemination is typically 2K. You should also be aware that the success rate of IVF using a donor egg or your own is 60% so it's not a guaranteed procedure even if they fertilize the egg and then place it directly in the uterus.
Lastly, the average age of menopause is 51 so yes, some women are still ovulating up to age 51 but that doesn't mean they are necessarily fertile or stand a high probability of conceiving at 50. In addition, many women suffer from what is called premature ovarian failure which means they stop ovulating or experience menopause before the age of 40 (many in their late 30's) It's believed up to 4% of the population may suffer from this. Women should also be aware of this and should certianly ask their mothers when they experienced menopause if they have already done so.
I'm not asking for celebrities to disclose their methods of pregnancy but the public shouldn't assume that they too can have kids at 40 because Jennifer Lopez just "spontaneously" had twins. Those of us who are educated about these matters will assume that a celebrity in her 40's who has multiple births likely resorted to fertilizatio procedures until proven otherwise because the probability is extremely low that they spontaneously had twins at 40 with no medical intervention. The moral of the story is women should be educated about these matters and shouldn't wait to have kids because they see celebrities having twins in their mid-40's.
And before some forumite chimes in with "My 42 yo friend just had twins and didn't use any fertility treatments (its likely your friend didn't tell you she had IVF) I can tell you of several women in their late 20's to early 30's who have been trying for years and can't get pregnant.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 12-31-2009 at 04:39 AM..
Well said, and this is something the public assumes or is unaware. 20% of all women over the age of 35 have difficulty conceiving a baby. What that means is MANY women in their early 30's and late 20's have difficulty conceiving a child. People think fertility problems only affect "old ladies" or women older than 40.
Another thing the sheeple in our society are unaware of is celebrities using IVF and fertility treatments to get pregnant. When a pregnant 40 yo + celebrity like Jennifer Lopez has twins, that's not a coincidence, 99% chance she had IVF or donor eggs. A lot of celebrities do this and it gives the false impression to the lay public that they can be just like these older actresses and just randomly have a kid when they are 37 or 38. The celebrities don't confess to their fertility treatments but its so common. I still laugh when a 39 yo woman just happens to have triplets...yeah right, like she didn't get IVF.
Again, the dumb sheeple on this thread don't get it. They think that all women who are older and don't have children waited because of career reasons and it's not true. Many of have simply had difficulty conceiving and didn't have the money to pursue IVF or fertility treatments or even sought a doctor until they were older. And even in those cases, for many women they simply can't conceive even with treatment.
I was not being derogatory when I said that adoption was an option for older women who have been career focused. They are, by no means, the only ones who fall into the older women adopting category. Of course there are those who have been trying since their 20s or 30s. There are also those, such as myself, in my early 40s who have simply never found the right guy to marry, and therefore have put off childbearing until they could provide a two-parent household. Perhaps I should have made that distinction. I did not mean to paint career women in a bad light. In fact, I have been pigenholed into various stereotypes because I am not married and don't have children. Many people assume that I have "put my career first" when the truth is that I would gladly give it up and be a full time stay at home mommy if the circumstances provided for such an opportunity.
Geez, AZ, I don't know what it was in my post that made you go off like that -- aren't you preaching to the choir? I am very aware of the situation since I'm an RN with extensive experience in reproductive endocrinology!! In addition, I moderate an infertility board.
Fertility in older women is not on par with winning the lottery, btw. The odds are not good but they are better than winning the lottery.
Also, just so you know, spontaneously conceived fraternal twins ARE more common in older women, by far. That's because as our hormone systems begin to fail, the ovaries get confused and kick out more than one egg at a time. Some believe this is a survival mechanism of sorts, to increase a woman's chances of conceiving when her bio clock is winding down.
My basic point is: delaying childbearing most certainly will result in problems for a majority of women over age 35, and young women DO need to be educated on this, BUT, as the public becomes more informed, they need to also beware of falling into the trap of half truths and assuming that ALL older women who are pregnant must have used DE or some sort of assistance. While some older women will lie about not using DE or not using IVF, there are also populations of older fertile women who couldn't possibly do IVF or DE due to either the expense or their religious beliefs, and they are still getting pregnant up into their early 50's! Yes, it does happen and I know these people. Some examples: Native Americans (live in poverty on reservations and yet keep giving birth up into their early 50's), hasidic Jews (live in poverty and may have religious prohibitions on IVF and DE depending upon which rabbi they follow, and who have 10 or 12 kids already and really aren't looking to spend 30K on a DE/IVF cycle to have number 13). These odds are low but they are NOT akin to winning the lottery -- not by a long shot.
I know of someone who spontaneously conceived a healthy pregnancy at age 44. A strange man she met at a party blurted out loudly "Just be honest, you did DE because women your age don't get pregnant naturally." She came to us in tears, shocked that anyone would say such a thing. She had not used DE or IVF! She had been seeing an oriental medicine fertility specialist (studies have shown that acupuncture and herbs can definitely help fertility). How offensive was that! I would like for people to not think in absolutes. Think in terms of "odds.
A look at my state's website for adoptable children produced some interesting results.
" Lauren would benefit best from a two parent family where there are no animals and she could be the only child; or the youngest by many years."
If this were the standard for anyone to have children there wouldn't be a lot of them.
" An ideal family would be able to provide him with a non-smoking, stay at home parent who has the time and energy to devote to working with numerous medical providers as well as be on hand to take him to many doctor's appointments. Strong organizational, and effective communication skills will be imperative for a parent to manage and advocate for all of his needs."
This is more like a job description than a search for a parent.
"Ren would benefit from a loving dedicated adoptive family who will let him continue to enjoy his monthly visits with his biological grandparents and parents, all of whom are in support of adoptive plans for him."
Wow, the adoptive parent of this 16 year old gets to send this kid back to the same people who didn't want to parent him. Don't that sound just peachy?
"Jordan will thrive in a home where he can be the only child or have an older brother. A two parent family would be ideal as Jordan's energy level will require a lot of one on one attention and constant supervision. Re-direction is needed at times due to Jordan's inability to understand appropriate boundaries."
Hmmmm .... I think my special needs kid would like a situation like that. Unfortunately, he is stuck here in this less than optimal environment where I guess he won't thrive as much.
"Travis was born in October 1992 and is an English speaking Caucasian young man with blond hair, blue eyes and is rather tall for his age. Travis is the oldest of three siblings and it would be beneficial to them to continue contact. "
But not beneficial enough for the surrendering parents to keep him in their custody.
"Janvier's birth mother has been a consistent and dedicated visitor. She is committed to maintaining a relationship with Janvier and an adoptive family. A family open to supporting a relationship with Janvier and his birth mother would help him maintain this positive connection."
Nothing like having a constant intrusion into your life, especially by someone who doesn't actually want to parent this child.
Can you understand that many people might not want to be involved in the above situations?
It is very unfortunate that the huge, growing middle class and wealthy in China do not adopt their own female babies.
While I am happy that a little girl has a better life here, I wonder if the white adoptive parents are trying to do the "diversity" thing?
Because if it was just about charity, there are so many children they could be helping right in this country.
I am not saying it's bad; I applaud they have such love in their hearts, but do you wonder about this?
it is hard to adopt infants in this country. the waiting line for infants is often two years. Sadly people do not want to adopt alot of pre teens or teens in foster care. I tis often quicker to go to china to get an infant than to be wait listed here
I was not being derogatory when I said that adoption was an option for older women who have been career focused. They are, by no means, the only ones who fall into the older women adopting category. Of course there are those who have been trying since their 20s or 30s. There are also those, such as myself, in my early 40s who have simply never found the right guy to marry, and therefore have put off childbearing until they could provide a two-parent household. Perhaps I should have made that distinction. I did not mean to paint career women in a bad light. In fact, I have been pigenholed into various stereotypes because I am not married and don't have children. Many people assume that I have "put my career first" when the truth is that I would gladly give it up and be a full time stay at home mommy if the circumstances provided for such an opportunity.
I have an incredible amount of admiration for women like yourself. I know so many who sell out and marry some creep just so they can start a family only to get divorced later because they married some neanderthal. And I agree with your post completely and apologize if I offended you.
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