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of course, Asians aren't perfect. as much as they push education, they seem to dislike creativity and individuality. the very few Asian students that attend the art school I go to have expressed this, and one girl I spoke to got disowned by her family for pursuing a career in film making. a lot of students also become so pressured to succeed that it leads to anxiety, depression, and suicide (not that that doesn't happen to American students of all races at rigorous schools like Harvard or MIT)
A friend of mine(white) is at some meeting at her school and she's talking to some young Asian lad and the topic is what they want to do after graduation. He says he wants to be a doctor, she says she wants to be a photographer, to which he replies, "why don't you want a respectable job?".
That there are people in the world raised with that kind of fundamentalist conventionalism is very sad to me. What point is there to life without the arts and humanities?
I am a black male, and I abhor the thought of being a doctor or lawyer or physicist. It sounds dreadful to my unconventional disposition. That doesn't mean I won't get an education. I'll probably get a Liberal Arts education in something like creative writing. I can even get the highest degree in my desired field and the Asian doctor will still be making more than me. His "Asian household" will have higher income than my household, but that wouldn't necessarily imply that his places a greater value on education.
Do what makes you happy... however what makes you happy better be desired by a large number of people or a select number of the wealthy... for instance, getting a degree where there are no jobs is probably a bad idea even if it makes you happy... that said, I like reading and I like SOME arts (most of it I think is crap drawn by little kids)... Do what you like and be happy that you can make a living out of it... its people who compare that pisses me off but then kids say the stupidest things...
Do what makes you happy... however what makes you happy better be desired by a large number of people or a select number of the wealthy... for instance, getting a degree where there are no jobs is probably a bad idea even if it makes you happy... that said, I like reading and I like SOME arts (most of it I think is crap drawn by little kids)... Do what you like and be happy that you can make a living out of it... its people who compare that pisses me off but then kids say the stupidest things...
I understand and I've entirely reconciled myself with the fact that I won't be making big bucks. All I'm pointing out is that it isn't so clear cut and that the Eastern method is not without its flaws as well.
He says he wants to be a doctor, she says she wants to be a photographer, to which he replies, "why don't you want a respectable job?".
That there are people in the world raised with that kind of fundamentalist conventionalism is very sad to me. What point is there to life without the arts and humanities?
I am a black male, and I abhor the thought of being a doctor or lawyer or physicist. It sounds dreadful to my unconventional disposition. That doesn't mean I won't get an education. I'll probably get a Liberal Arts education in something like creative writing. I can even get the highest degree in my desired field and the Asian doctor will still be making more than me. His "Asian household" will have higher income than my household, but that wouldn't necessarily imply that his places a greater value on education.
Because art is at the whim of the people and exists after you have satisfied your basic needs. I am a great lover of art, and I think society is much better off with it than without it, but I do admire and respect those who dedicate their lives to perpetuating a strong foundation upon which the rest of society can be built.
You should do whatever you want with your life...pursue any profession that makes you happy. But you can't do that and simultaneously complain that you make less money or that you don't have health care or whatever. The world doesn't exist to serve your whims.
I understand and I've entirely reconciled myself with the fact that I won't be making big bucks. All I'm pointing out is that it isn't so clear cut and that the Eastern method is not without its flaws as well.
What flaws? The difference is that if I had told my parents I wanted to be an artist or a writer, they would have helped ensure that I become the best at what I do...it's not about the actual profession. It's about being all you can be...not just frittering around.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- While the overall unemployment rate for Americans fell in November, the jobless gap between African-Americans and all other races actually rose, continuing a disturbing trend that has many lawmakers up in arms.
The black community has suffered the hardest during the economic downturn, with an unemployment rate that currently stands at 15.6%. That's a much higher rate than for all of the other races that the Labor Department tracks, including Hispanics (12.7%), whites (9.3%) and Asians (7.3%).
Five Things the U.S. Can Learn from China - TIME 2. Education Matters
On a recent Saturday afternoon, at a nice restaurant in central Shanghai, Liu Zhi-he sat fidgeting at the table, knowing that it was about time for him to leave. All around him sat relatives from an extended family that had gathered for a momentous occasion: the 90th birthday of Liu's great-grandmother Ling Shu Zhen, the still spry and elegant matriarch of a sprawling clan. But Liu had to leave because it was time for him to go to school. This Saturday, as he does every Saturday, Liu was attending two special classes. He takes a math tutorial, and he studies English.
Liu is 7 years old.
A lot of foreigners — and, indeed, a fair number of Chinese — believe that the obsession (and that's the right word) with education in China is overdone. The system stresses rote memorization. It drives kids crazy — aren't 7-year-olds supposed to have fun on Saturday afternoons? — and doesn't necessarily prepare them, economically speaking, for the job market or, emotionally speaking, for adulthood. Add to that the fact that the system, while incredibly competitive, has become corrupt.
All true — and all, for the most part, beside the point. After decades of investment in an educational system that reaches the remotest peasant villages, the literacy rate in China is now over 90%. (The U.S.'s is 86%.) And in urban China, in particular, students don't just learn to read. They learn math. They learn science. As William McCahill, a former deputy chief of mission in the U.S. embassy in Beijing, says, "Fundamentally, they are getting the basics right, particularly in math and science. We need to do the same. Their kids are often ahead of ours." (See pictures of China on the wild side.)
What the Chinese can teach are verities, home truths that have started to make a comeback in the U.S. but that could still use a push. The Chinese understand that there is no substitute for putting in the hours and doing the work. And more than anything else, the kids in China do lots of work. In the U.S., according to a 2007 survey by the Department of Education, 37% of 10th-graders in 2002 spent more than 10 hours on homework each week. That's not bad; in fact, it's much better than it used to be (in 1980 a mere 7% of kids did that much work at home each week). But Chinese students, according to a 2006 report by the Asia Society, spend twice as many hours doing homework as do their U.S. peers.
Part of the reason is family involvement. Consider Liu, the 7-year-old who had to leave the birthday party to go to Saturday school. Both his parents work, so when he goes home each day, his grandparents are there to greet him and put him through his after-school paces. His mother says simply, "This is normal. All his classmates work like this after school."
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There's also a documentary called 2 Million Minutes. It compares the study habits of Indian, Chinese, and Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
Because art is at the whim of the people and exists after you have satisfied your basic needs. I am a great lover of art, and I think society is much better off with it than without it, but I do admire and respect those who dedicate their lives to perpetuating a strong foundation upon which the rest of society can be built.
You should do whatever you want with your life...pursue any profession that makes you happy. But you can't do that and simultaneously complain that you make less money or that you don't have health care or whatever. The world doesn't exist to serve your whims.
Because art is at the whim of the people and exists after you have satisfied your basic needs. I am a great lover of art, and I think society is much better off with it than without it, but I do admire and respect those who dedicate their lives to perpetuating a strong foundation upon which the rest of society can be built.
You should do whatever you want with your life...pursue any profession that makes you happy. But you can't do that and simultaneously complain that you make less money or that you don't have health care or whatever. The world doesn't exist to serve your whims.
If you think I was complaining that I wouldn't make as much money, then I think you should read and re-read.
My point is that stressing different educational paths would lead to different incomes. So Asian households having higher incomes wouldn't necessarily mean that they stress education more than anyone else, but perhaps that they stress the types of education that lead to high income jobs.
If you think I was complaining that I wouldn't make as much money, then I think you should read and re-read.
I can even get the highest degree in my desired field and the Asian doctor will still be making more than me.
My point is that stressing different educational paths would lead to different incomes. So Asian households having higher incomes wouldn't necessarily mean that they stress education more than anyone else, but perhaps that they stress the types of education that lead to high income jobs.
Hmmmm...I would agree except that most of my friends with jobs outside of law/engineering/medicine also make top pay grade at what they do and made straight As in high school and college.
So there's your difference. Whether or not it's english class or math class or band, they will go for the A. Because every class is important.
Hmmmm...I would agree except that most of my friends with jobs outside of law/engineering/medicine also make top pay grade at what they do and made straight As in high school and college.
So there's your difference. Whether or not it's english class or math class, they will go for the A.
You can make top pay grade in in a non law/engineering/medicine field and you still won't make as much as someone in the top pay grade in a law/engineering/medicine field.
My hypothesis is that Asians overwhelmingly decide to go into those types of fields and that is what drives up their median incomes. Whereas Whites and Blacks are much larger groups with a much wider spread, most not ending up in that category resulting in a lower median when the lower paying degrees are added in to the higher paying degrees.
Add this to my earlier statement that Asians are an extremely small part of the population, concentrated in a few areas, and mostly immigrants or the children of relatively recent immigrants.
It seems to me that some in this thread have some kind of vested interest in there being a subjective, ambiguous explanation(Work harder, stress education more, ad nauseum) for this.
It seems to me that some in this thread have some kind of vested interest in there being a subjective, ambiguous explanation(Work harder, stress education more, ad nauseum) for this.
True, but you really can't argue that. Why they have this attitude is still up for debate. The fact that they overwhelmingly do in higher proportions is definitely not up for debate.
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