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You can get some really strange outcomes from not reading contracts. Some of those things might be a free trial period that automatically converts to a $49.95/month fee if you do not specifically call, not email, and cancel. Another would be singing up for a free ring-tone and, once again, if you do not cancel you automatically get charged through your cell phone service. In terms of forums you might not have been on a forum and might think later on that if you don't like it you can just cancel your membership and then later ask for all of your post to be deleted. I'm sure the moderators can account for how many times they've been asked to delete comments when a poster gets huffy and puffy about the site and wishes not to be associated with it at all. It may make people think twice about what they post on forums if they ever googled their user-name.
You can get some really strange outcomes from not reading contracts. Some of those things might be a free trial period that automatically converts to a $49.95/month fee if you do not specifically call, not email, and cancel. Another would be singing up for a free ring-tone and, once again, if you do not cancel you automatically get charged through your cell phone service. In terms of forums you might not have been on a forum and might think later on that if you don't like it you can just cancel your membership and then later ask for all of your post to be deleted. I'm sure the moderators can account for how many times they've been asked to delete comments when a poster gets huffy and puffy about the site and wishes not to be associated with it at all. It may make people think twice about what they post on forums if they ever googled their user-name.
You are very wise in your business dealings. People not knowing what they were getting into was a big part of that mortgage crisis. No one held a gun to their heads to say "sign here". Who's fault is it really if you don't read the contract?
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Originally Posted by citizenkane2
Or a mortgage that sky-rockets on you.
But now you need a bail out???
I don't want to hijack this thread, but it's really not as simple as that. As you've acknowledged, I'm a relatively smart person when it comes to contracts, and trust me, I exasperated the woman who brought us our re-fi documents to sign. I suspect she thought she'd be in and out in an hour. . . four hours later she'd finally answered all my questions to my satisfaction. However, during both the original purchase and subsequent re-fi we got royally screwed over by the mortgage brokers because they didn't disclose things until the last possible second, outright lied to us and sent us into closing with a "Good Faith Estimate of Closing Costs" that was anything but. It was over $10,000 under the actual closing costs, half of which was a full point he was taking on the loan! And guess what -- being lied to by your own mortgage broker isn't good cause to walk out of a closing without forfeiting your earnest money, and in this case ours was substantial! Even the savviest of buyers got hoodwinked by sleazy, greedy bankers and mortgage brokers who are simply way smarter at playing the game than the average Joe.
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Originally Posted by citizenkane2
On your other point.........there is no excuse for our legislature to not know what they are doing to this country. The reasons those bills are they way they are is due to trickery not necessity. The amount of pages are the bushes created to hide the traps in the laws passed.
Simple language.....bullet points.....that would bring everything into the open. But they don't want that. We have a bunch of Lawyers up there using legalese to frustrate and confound the public they represent. If there are too many pages for them to read, then they should use fewer pages. Period.
If you as a private citizen hold yourself to this high a standard, when a mistake would only effect you, then these clowns (paid by you and me) should do the same, because their mistakes effect millions or people and dollars!
They are our employees! We pay their salaries. We can demand they read and understand the laws they pass! Either that or write shorter bills. If that's too much trouble, then we vote them out and get a new employee.
I, too, would love to see more straightforward language in our legislation. Perhaps we ought to make that the one point both sides can come together on and start a petition to all of our legislators, Republican, Democrat, Independent, Green and all others, for someone to introduce legislation that would require simple, easy to understand language in all bills before they can be voted on.
In the meantime, we have what we have. It would take me weeks to read 2,000 pages. It takes me a week to finish a standard paperback novel. My husband, on the other hand, can read any book in a day or less -- sometimes twice. And remember what he's read, no less!! I don't think it's unreasonable to demand that every legislator at least sit down with the entire bill and all the amendments and at a minimum skim it for obvious things that jump out at them. But I have no problem with having staff review it for detail and mark out what is merely "boilerplate" and can be skipped over, then highlight the pertinent areas for our representatives to focus more carefully on. If they even did that much, it's at least better than not bothering to read a single page or word of it!
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Originally Posted by citizenkane2
But my hat is off to you......O' wise one.
Thank you.
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Originally Posted by free_food
Good post. Too bad you don't hold our ELECTED OFFICIALS to the same standard as when you review things for your house, or boss. It appears you don't give a rat's ass about this country.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say; I don't give a rat's ass about this country.
Not only do I rarely read what I sign, I have contracts and deals written that I send out to investors without reading.
Thats what lawyers are for. I cant think of one contract that I've ever read, and this goes from the partnership agreements, to sales agreements, to loan documents, to land trust deeds..
After all, what would you do if you get to the closing table on a home and find something in a mortgage agreement you dont like? Not close on the home? Its not like the bank will stop and rewrite their contract for you at the closing table..
People who got into mortgages that sky-rocketed on them, knew ahead of time that it was going to happen. It wasnt hidden in some line 1830 of a contractract..
Simple language.....bullet points.....that would bring everything into the open. But they don't want that. We have a bunch of Lawyers up there using legalese to frustrate and confound the public they represent. If there are too many pages for them to read, then they should use fewer pages. Period.
Laws are by necessity highly technical - not so much criminal codes, everybody understands theft and violence - but stuff having to do with economics is seriously convoluted. And it all has to be meshed into pre-existing law. It resembles a technical standard or a blueprint - highly specific and unambiguous, yet baffling for anyone not in the intended audience.
If you're managing a project that takes a few thousand pages to simply document, chances are you haven't read every page. The CEO of Boeing didn't check the load factor of the 787 wing spar - that job was delegated.
Personally, I'm quite fine with the principle of elected officials making policy, then hiring staff to implement policies.
congress does it all the time, would you read 2000 pages of boring technical reading material.
When that 'boring technical reading material' leads to the enslavement of 350 million people, you damned rights I'd read every last word before deciding whether to sign it or not. As it is, nobody has bothered. And as it is, we are one step closer to being slaves. And dolts.
Laws are by necessity highly technical - not so much criminal codes, everybody understands theft and violence - but stuff having to do with economics is seriously convoluted. And it all has to be meshed into pre-existing law. It resembles a technical standard or a blueprint - highly specific and unambiguous, yet baffling for anyone not in the intended audience.
If you're managing a project that takes a few thousand pages to simply document, chances are you haven't read every page. The CEO of Boeing didn't check the load factor of the 787 wing spar - that job was delegated.
Personally, I'm quite fine with the principle of elected officials making policy, then hiring staff to implement policies.
How is it "by necessity"?
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Did Bill Gates read the source code for Vista?
congress does it all the time, would you read 2000 pages of boring technical reading material.
