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Old 12-20-2009, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,719,429 times
Reputation: 3146

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLove08 View Post
So you're telling me insurance companies don't deny coverage to people?

I guess you've never seen Sicko where the woman talks about her job working for an insurance company where she denies people coverage.

I suspect it does happen and should be addressed (I am not here to defend insurance companies simply to point out the government is hopelessly ill equipt to provide health care.) Yet it doesn't mean they do not want customers.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,719,429 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Car insurance is on it's way up as well. A friend of mine in NJ with an auto insurance agency is folding up the business shortly because the franchise and underwriting fees have ballooned making her no longer competitive. That's all folks! She put 4 children through college with that business, so I'm certain it wasn't her mismanagement.

It is the local state government through regulation that has chased insurance providers form the state causing decreased competition. NJ has the highest car insurance rates in the country thanks to our Democrat leadership.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,232,672 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Car insurance is on it's way up as well. A friend of mine in NJ with an auto insurance agency is folding up the business shortly because the franchise and underwriting fees have ballooned making her no longer competitive. That's all folks! She put 4 children through college with that business, so I'm certain it wasn't her mismanagement.
I'm surprised she lasted this long. Insurance companies have been gobbled up for years.
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:31 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,753,655 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
You are acusing probably one of the most hated industries of collusion. Don't you think the Feds may pick up on that if it were true? You accuse them of collusion in one breath but dismiss increasing competition by selling insurance across boarders.

Next you accuse big Pharma of intentionally not creating curative drugs because they are not profitable. First that is wrong antibiotics jump to mind, they are cures. If I gave it more thought I could probably come up with dozens. Secondly it is this kind of bizzare blind hatred of things we don't understand that allows our politicians fool us with the kind of slop they are trying to force on us.
Why would anyone hate them?
Blind? Thank goodness I see fine and hear fine because neither glasses nor hearing aids were covered by my premium medical plan. Perhaps you need the picture of reindeer games fleshed out for you. Being spoken down to on the phone by a bureaucrat, or being given a run around between specialists? Having to pay a $35 copay for a chiropractors visit that is billed out for $32.50 and now her secretary has to spend the time to pay the insurance company $2.50 plus postage? Did you know that chiropractor was contractually not permitted to simply charge me the negotiated office visit rate? How about having to pay a $20 copay for a generic drug that costs $7? I got halfway out the drugstore before I caught that sleazy trick. CVS no more- they were pocketing the difference.

How about there is no generic drug, which is supposed to be a $30 copay, but the pharmacy bills it out at $87 full cost because according to the insurance company I'm supposed to go through trials with 3 other prescriptions (non generic, $30 each) before they'll fill the one the doctor prescribed, so back to square one at the dr's office. Do the math and know 3 months would elapse, needlessly over medicated, because they decided a drug wasn't to their liking. All doctors are naturally obligated to read their minds at all times to know what they may or may not prescribe.

I'm healthy. Another family member was not, and being her patient advocate when she had kidney cancer was hell on earth. Apparently you need to be there to see what's vastly wrong. Something horrible shouldn't have to happen to you for any of this to be real. The worst is dealing with these smarmy characters when you're medicated for pain and you don't have an advocate. They'll wipe the floors with you. Mental illness or psychotropic drugs- I can't even begin to imagine how they cope.

Drug companies... We have enough anti biotics. Any cures? Diabetes? Cancer? MS? STD's? Heart disease? Nope nope nope. There's a new vaccine for teen aged girls against papaloma virus that will kill them- yay for population control? There's a new vaccine for H1N1 or is it now H1N2 since the strain mutated when N1 was defective? You talk about incentives but don't want to believe the copious disincentives going on in western medicine isn't reality.

The job isn't really getting done, and as much as commercial TV will miss their million dollar sponsors that cause side effects like heart attacks, uncontrollable muscle spasms and brain bleeds- they can take their management drugs themselves for 10 yrs and let me know how it worked out for them because I don't care to be their lab rat. They can also sue themselves for wrongful death so I want have to listen to a schiester lawyer advertising his multi million lawsuit. Imagine the money they'll save collectively on commercial air time and lets not forget the schmoozing in doctors offices. One visit means providing a continental breakfast for the staff listening to their presentation. Donut anyone? Have a pill. The waiting room is riddled with drug advertisements AKA free lunch.

Which leads me to unscrupulous Dr's and Hospitals. When they see a primo insurance plan, it just might be bad for your health. They might feel compelled to rack up extra procedures, surgical if they can get by on it, milk it long enough, a patient to these people is nothing more than a cash cow. Opt out they try to guilt with AMA. I've had doctors who walked into my room, picked up my chart, asked the nurse a thing or two, walked out of the room. Never looked at me, never spoke to me, and I have no idea what his name was or what the insurance company paid him. What's the going rate for 35 seconds in a hospital? This is private insurance, a premium plan, that was hardly ever used by a healthy adult. You really believe health care can be worse? Sure it could be worse if I paid even more $$$ for crap which has been the trend for 20 yrs. I prefer it be better for less. Strangely enough it's never gotten better when they policed themselves, no matter how much I paid. Not once. You'd think capitalism would be more competitive. Somehow they got around it because capitalism is not what's in play. There is no competition. That HR director for fortune 500 was no slouch.

Innovative diagnostics- why should MRI technology remain so high priced? It's not new. They'd sell more of them if the sticker shock wasn't so outrageous, but I guess we'll just have to wait until the patent rights expire 50 yrs from now before pricing gets reality based. CT scan, x ray machines, what else? When this equipment is sold globally, they're not lacking volume customers. Durable medical equipment, the moment it's designated medical, entitles anyone to mark it up 5,000%. Medical cotton balls? $25. It's pure BS. I can buy a 10 speed bicycle for $80 but a senior citizens walker (bent aluminum pipes, 2 wheels, 2 plastic caps) cost $200. How new are walkers? What exactly keeps that cost so high? Custom orthopedic inserts- a piece of plastic is heated in a water bath, molded to the bottom of your foot, trimmed down, edges sanded... starting cost 15 yrs ago $300. How is that price tag justified when that piece of plastic was no more than $3? Before you ask- no it wasn't a specialist doing the molding.

Insurance over the border is renouncing American citizenship and becoming Canadian. I vote no to that one. You had another option in mind you didn't articulate? How could I consider or blow off an option that wasn't actually offered?

I know I sound p*ssed off because I am p*ssed off. Perhaps you can see why a little better, and not take it personally yourself. Moreover, not assume I've failed to base my opinions on facts. My facts are unpleasant, as are many others fed up with baffle-them-with-BS health care. Enough is enough.
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:28 AM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,719,429 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Why would anyone hate them?
Blind? Thank goodness I see fine and hear fine because neither glasses nor hearing aids were covered by my premium medical plan. Perhaps you need the picture of reindeer games fleshed out for you. Being spoken down to on the phone by a bureaucrat, or being given a run around between specialists? Having to pay a $35 copay for a chiropractors visit that is billed out for $32.50 and now her secretary has to spend the time to pay the insurance company $2.50 plus postage? Did you know that chiropractor was contractually not permitted to simply charge me the negotiated office visit rate? How about having to pay a $20 copay for a generic drug that costs $7? I got halfway out the drugstore before I caught that sleazy trick. CVS no more- they were pocketing the difference.

How about there is no generic drug, which is supposed to be a $30 copay, but the pharmacy bills it out at $87 full cost because according to the insurance company I'm supposed to go through trials with 3 other prescriptions (non generic, $30 each) before they'll fill the one the doctor prescribed, so back to square one at the dr's office. Do the math and know 3 months would elapse, needlessly over medicated, because they decided a drug wasn't to their liking. All doctors are naturally obligated to read their minds at all times to know what they may or may not prescribe.

I'm healthy. Another family member was not, and being her patient advocate when she had kidney cancer was hell on earth. Apparently you need to be there to see what's vastly wrong. Something horrible shouldn't have to happen to you for any of this to be real. The worst is dealing with these smarmy characters when you're medicated for pain and you don't have an advocate. They'll wipe the floors with you. Mental illness or psychotropic drugs- I can't even begin to imagine how they cope.

Drug companies... We have enough anti biotics. Any cures? Diabetes? Cancer? MS? STD's? Heart disease? Nope nope nope. There's a new vaccine for teen aged girls against papaloma virus that will kill them- yay for population control? There's a new vaccine for H1N1 or is it now H1N2 since the strain mutated when N1 was defective? You talk about incentives but don't want to believe the copious disincentives going on in western medicine isn't reality.

The job isn't really getting done, and as much as commercial TV will miss their million dollar sponsors that cause side effects like heart attacks, uncontrollable muscle spasms and brain bleeds- they can take their management drugs themselves for 10 yrs and let me know how it worked out for them because I don't care to be their lab rat. They can also sue themselves for wrongful death so I want have to listen to a schiester lawyer advertising his multi million lawsuit. Imagine the money they'll save collectively on commercial air time and lets not forget the schmoozing in doctors offices. One visit means providing a continental breakfast for the staff listening to their presentation. Donut anyone? Have a pill. The waiting room is riddled with drug advertisements AKA free lunch.

Which leads me to unscrupulous Dr's and Hospitals. When they see a primo insurance plan, it just might be bad for your health. They might feel compelled to rack up extra procedures, surgical if they can get by on it, milk it long enough, a patient to these people is nothing more than a cash cow. Opt out they try to guilt with AMA. I've had doctors who walked into my room, picked up my chart, asked the nurse a thing or two, walked out of the room. Never looked at me, never spoke to me, and I have no idea what his name was or what the insurance company paid him. What's the going rate for 35 seconds in a hospital? This is private insurance, a premium plan, that was hardly ever used by a healthy adult. You really believe health care can be worse? Sure it could be worse if I paid even more $$$ for crap which has been the trend for 20 yrs. I prefer it be better for less. Strangely enough it's never gotten better when they policed themselves, no matter how much I paid. Not once. You'd think capitalism would be more competitive. Somehow they got around it because capitalism is not what's in play. There is no competition. That HR director for fortune 500 was no slouch.

Innovative diagnostics- why should MRI technology remain so high priced? It's not new. They'd sell more of them if the sticker shock wasn't so outrageous, but I guess we'll just have to wait until the patent rights expire 50 yrs from now before pricing gets reality based. CT scan, x ray machines, what else? When this equipment is sold globally, they're not lacking volume customers. Durable medical equipment, the moment it's designated medical, entitles anyone to mark it up 5,000%. Medical cotton balls? $25. It's pure BS. I can buy a 10 speed bicycle for $80 but a senior citizens walker (bent aluminum pipes, 2 wheels, 2 plastic caps) cost $200. How new are walkers? What exactly keeps that cost so high? Custom orthopedic inserts- a piece of plastic is heated in a water bath, molded to the bottom of your foot, trimmed down, edges sanded... starting cost 15 yrs ago $300. How is that price tag justified when that piece of plastic was no more than $3? Before you ask- no it wasn't a specialist doing the molding.

Insurance over the border is renouncing American citizenship and becoming Canadian. I vote no to that one. You had another option in mind you didn't articulate? How could I consider or blow off an option that wasn't actually offered?

I know I sound p*ssed off because I am p*ssed off. Perhaps you can see why a little better, and not take it personally yourself. Moreover, not assume I've failed to base my opinions on facts. My facts are unpleasant, as are many others fed up with baffle-them-with-BS health care. Enough is enough.

None of this is fact this anecdotal evidence of your experience. Again you have no understanding of the economics of health care and I suspect little understanding of your own coverage. Most of the cause of your outrage is due to government regulations to begin with.

You don't understand that had you tried step therapy everything would have been covered. The pharmacist notified your doctor and it was he/she who declined to follow step therapy. It is not foolish and you have no way of knowing if those other less expensive technologies would have worked because you didn't try them.

Again get tort reform and you will see fewer diagnostic tests ordered for defensive reasons.

Next in your learned opinion we have enough antibiotics. You may want to let folks with MRSA and VRSA know that.

I could go on and on but you get the picture. Your outraged is based on ignorance and directed towards the wrong folks. Medicine as pracitced in the US is heavily regulated in both practice and pricing. Much of what you complain about is due to the unintended consequences of government regulation. You think it is bad now you aint seen nothing yet.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:53 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,753,655 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
None of this is fact this anecdotal evidence of your experience. Again you have no understanding of the economics of health care and I suspect little understanding of your own coverage. Most of the cause of your outrage is due to government regulations to begin with.

You don't understand that had you tried step therapy everything would have been covered. The pharmacist notified your doctor and it was he/she who declined to follow step therapy. It is not foolish and you have no way of knowing if those other less expensive technologies would have worked because you didn't try them.

Again get tort reform and you will see fewer diagnostic tests ordered for defensive reasons.

Next in your learned opinion we have enough antibiotics. You may want to let folks with MRSA and VRSA know that.

I could go on and on but you get the picture. Your outraged is based on ignorance and directed towards the wrong folks. Medicine as pracitced in the US is heavily regulated in both practice and pricing. Much of what you complain about is due to the unintended consequences of government regulation. You think it is bad now you aint seen nothing yet.
Shore you failed to prove any point and repeatedly resort to personal attacks. No need for a moderator, in fact, I'm pleased you're displaying yourself in full daylight. That's direct evidence for all to judge your credibility themselves, because once we know with whom we are dealing, all our decisions are made effortlessly. Anyone willing to risk giving you the benefit of the doubt is sure to think better of it now.

Step therapy- you aren't a doctor, you aren't in any way aware of what treatment or drugs were involved, or even what allergic reactions would be involved (contraindications in your vocabulary?) but you'll blindly defend an industry NOT subject to anti trust law, insisting everyone else must be 'ignorant'.

Without offering a shred of documentation or anecdotal experience yourself in this 'exchange' you'd characterize as debate, you claim it's regulation from the government making this farce we call a health care system dysfunctional. Whatever your problem with authority/ having standards of any sort isn't my problem. Your statements have regularly served to offer more evidence against your positions, that is to say, to the DETRIMENT of anything conservative. How's that been working out for you?

Why should any blogger bother pandering to someone talking to themselves if they're unwilling to hear any view that doesn't support their own? Moreover, when all too many in a political party are convinced they, and ONLY they, have all the answers to every question at all times, how does that disqualify them from a democratic process altogether?
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,719,429 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Shore you failed to prove any point and repeatedly resort to personal attacks. No need for a moderator, in fact, I'm pleased you're displaying yourself in full daylight. That's direct evidence for all to judge your credibility themselves, because once we know with whom we are dealing, all our decisions are made effortlessly. Anyone willing to risk giving you the benefit of the doubt is sure to think better of it now.

Step therapy- you aren't a doctor, you aren't in any way aware of what treatment or drugs were involved, or even what allergic reactions would be involved (contraindications in your vocabulary?) but you'll blindly defend an industry NOT subject to anti trust law, insisting everyone else must be 'ignorant'.

Without offering a shred of documentation or anecdotal experience yourself in this 'exchange' you'd characterize as debate, you claim it's regulation from the government making this farce we call a health care system dysfunctional. Whatever your problem with authority/ having standards of any sort isn't my problem. Your statements have regularly served to offer more evidence against your positions, that is to say, to the DETRIMENT of anything conservative. How's that been working out for you?

Why should any blogger bother pandering to someone talking to themselves if they're unwilling to hear any view that doesn't support their own? Moreover, when all too many in a political party are convinced they, and ONLY they, have all the answers to every question at all times, how does that disqualify them from a democratic process altogether?

Yikes I provided point by point refutation of your lack of understanding of your own health plan and and you complain I hurt your feelings? You provided no counterpoint other than an ad hominem attack. Yes everyone can judge for themselves who knows what they are talking about. So sad.

I think it would be swell if you refuted anything I said with something approaching a fact. Please since I am so far off base it should be easy. We are waiting......

Oh heck since I am feeling generous tonight I will help you out with step therapy. If there was a contraindication all you doctor would need to do is document it and voila! You have your medication. But don't take my word for it I am just a pharmacist.

I can't resist, your beloved saviors in the Senate helped them retain their exemption from complying with anti trust laws

Please digest this while you are preparing your refutation. Carry on.

Last edited by shorebaby; 12-21-2009 at 08:21 PM..
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,431,230 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLove08 View Post
I'd rather have a decrease on my insurance premium than a tin of popcorn but that's just me.
It's probably not an agent but, instead a broker. An agent is an employee of an insurance company and a broker is self employed (and represents their clients). By law, brokers are not allowed to discount their commission to lower a clients premium and therefore compete with other brokers (by offering to work for less and pass on the saving to the client). It's called rebating and the reason for it is to keep brokers from turning into more or less monopolies (kind of like Wal-Mart). Gifts must be limited to a dollar amount (which is usually stated in the law) so that it doesn't turn into a rebate (by the broker giving out expensive gifts). That's why traditionally brokers often sent out calendars or fly swatters as gifts.
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Old 12-22-2009, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,013 posts, read 47,464,680 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Car insurance is on it's way up as well. A friend of mine in NJ with an auto insurance agency is folding up the business shortly because the franchise and underwriting fees have ballooned making her no longer competitive. That's all folks! She put 4 children through college with that business, so I'm certain it wasn't her mismanagement.
And so it house insurance. Many carriers slapped 40% increases after the 2006 hurricanes.
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