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The industry didn't just "move out"... they got chased out by the unions... they couldn't compete because of the unions... what did you think they were going to do? Oh, that's right... bailout... from the government...
Maybe you can explain why my city (Boston) is going broke. Hint: The biggest expenditure for the city, by far, is education and the average salary for teachers is over 70,000/year. The teachers can retire after 23 years with 80% of their final year's payrate plus full benefits. Imagine retiring at age 46.
You now have a situation where you have two teachers who filled the same position in the school system who retired early, plus you have to hire a teacher to take their place. The city of Boston is now in the position of paying the salary and full benefits of three different people for one single position in the school system. This is the Teacher's Union in Massachusetts.
Guess who the management is? The taxpayer who doesn't even have a voice in the whole process.
The city of Boston sounds like they are headed down the same path as GM with all their benefits for early retirees.
My FIL retired from GM at the age of 55 with great benefits. Twenty three years later he is still sucking the company dry on what they give him. They did cut back on his life insurance but at age 78 that is not a factor.
Actually as someone who grew up in the metro detroit area, the unions brought prosperity to the area. It died because of inept, greedy management shipping jobs overseas and stagnation in product development. Thats all management not unions. As usual evilnewbie, you need to wake up and face reality.
People want to think it's still the times where child labor laws need to be enacted. You have a massive amount of Federal Protections that make unions obsolete now. Competition and an ability to innovate and mainstream is what makes companies able to stay afloat. That's just the way business works now. That policy of being able to innovate is what pushes people to stay educated and keep them on a continual self improvement plan. There is no stagnation that is rewarding anymore. The status quo is not the future.
We wouldn't have those "massive amounts of Federal Protections" if not for the unions. Let's not forget to give credit where it's due. Also, there isn't an industry in the U.S.---union shop or not---that can compete with the $3 and $4 an hour that foreign companies pay their workers which is the real reason why companies are moving off shore. American's can't live on that.
My FIL retired from GM at the age of 55 with great benefits. Twenty three years later he is still sucking the company dry on what they give him. They did cut back on his life insurance but at age 78 that is not a factor.
Your father-in-law also just lost a lot of his health care coverage---dental, vision and higher deductibles and co-pays. And as of the last few U.A.W. contracts, new hire-ins don't have pension rights with GM and the union covers the cost of health care for their workers and retirees.
Last edited by Wayland Woman; 12-22-2009 at 08:28 AM..
Reason: add last line
We wouldn't have those "massive amounts of Federal Protections" if not for the unions. Let's not forget to give credit where it's due. Also, there isn't an industry in the U.S.---union shop or not---that can compete with the $3 and $4 an hour that foreign companies pay their workers which is the real reason why companies are moving off shore. American's can't live on that.
Yes, back in the day unions were important in bring industry up to par with human suffering. Now not so much, over compensating human suffering sounds fine and dandy till you're out of a job.
Unions these days are the equivalent of ball and chain hooked on the ankle of a runner. The leg/s of the runner might be strong as an ox but what does it matter if you lose the race?
Yes, back in the day unions were important in bring industry up to par with human suffering. Now not so much, over compensating human suffering sounds fine and dandy till you're out of a job.
Unions these days are the equivalent of ball and chain hooked on the ankle of a runner. The leg/s of the runner might be strong as an ox but what does it matter if you lose the race?
The cost of UAW workers had little to do with the industry's failure. Managements failure to design more energy efficient vehicles at a time with sky rocketing foreign fuel did. The 2003 - 2008 oil crisis took them down because GM had neglected their development of energy efficient passenger cars in favor of their SUVs and light trucks which people quit buying.
GM had more energy efficient vehicles than just about any other car manufacturer. So that only leaves management not being able to change its policies and structure. Now why would that be?
GM had more energy efficient vehicles than just about any other car manufacturer. So that only leaves management not being able to change its policies and structure. Now why would that be?
GM had damn good vehicles, but the unions sucked them dry, to the point where they could no longer sell enough cars to fund all the benefits for the people who no longer even worked at GM, much less their productive employees. GM was the poster child for being anti-union.
GM had damn good vehicles, but the unions sucked them dry, to the point where they could no longer sell enough cars to fund all the benefits for the people who no longer even worked at GM, much less their productive employees. GM was the poster child for being anti-union.
This is why most new auto plants are being built in the right to work states. Those foreign guys know where to build.
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