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Old 12-26-2009, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Terra firma
1,372 posts, read 1,548,971 times
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To say that vaccines cause autism is a misnomer. It's the Thimerosal (mercury) in childhood vaccines that is in question. I don't think that anyone is trying to reverse the practice of vaccination. They simply want to insure that mercury is no longer contained in them. There are other adequate, and far safer preservatives.

As to whether or not mercury can cause autism consider this: There is a lipo-protein in the body associated with the removal and excretion of heavy metals. There are three variants: apoE2, apoE3, and apoE4. ApoE2 & 3 offer good protection from mercury, but apoE4 provides almost none.

So it stands to reason that people with the apoE4 variant will likely suffer from mercury exposure. This also provides an answer to the genetic link or in other words why autism spectrum disorders seem to run in families.

Studies have shown that people with the apoE4 variant are 15 times more likely to develop Alzheimers Disease. Could this be from years of Thimerosal containing Flu shots or the slow leaching of mercury from dental amalgam fillings?

The bottom line is that there hasn't been any serious investigation into these possibilities. I would like to see all children with autism tested for the apoE4 variant. I think the results would shock the medical world.

Discuss.

 
Old 12-26-2009, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,747,599 times
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There has been plenty of serious investigation into this. Thimerosol has been removed from all but some influenza vaccines, and never was in many vaccines to begin with. Immunized children have no higher incidence of autism than unimmunized children. Some of the "researchers" who have supposedly found correlations with vaccines and autism have been accused of "professional misconduct" in Britain, only to come here to the US and continue their misinformation campaign.

http://www.immunize.org/

http://www.immunize.org/autism/
 
Old 12-27-2009, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,801 posts, read 41,008,695 times
Reputation: 62194
Not having children, I never followed this closely. All I have are questions.

Are you born with autism or did it/does it show up after the shots? If children were being vaccinated for so long, why did it begin to show up in large numbers more recently? Other medical conditions run if families, too. Why aren't they linked to childhood vaccinations either of the child with the medical condition or their parents? What else occured around the time autism diagnoses seemed to spike? How about for the parents of those children, like maybe some kind of drug use? Who benefits monetarily from autism or autism-like diagnoses?
 
Old 12-27-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Terra firma
1,372 posts, read 1,548,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Not having children, I never followed this closely. All I have are questions.

Are you born with autism or did it/does it show up after the shots? If children were being vaccinated for so long, why did it begin to show up in large numbers more recently? Other medical conditions run if families, too. Why aren't they linked to childhood vaccinations either of the child with the medical condition or their parents? What else occured around the time autism diagnoses seemed to spike? How about for the parents of those children, like maybe some kind of drug use? Who benefits monetarily from autism or autism-like diagnoses?
I'll try to answer some of your questions:

Many of the parents of autistic children will swear up and down that their child was normal until the MMR vaccine series at 18 months, and then their child changed dramatically.

The increase in prevalence can be tied to the increased vaccine schedule. When I was a child (37 years old) we only got a handful of vaccines in early childhood. The current schedule is 28 vaccinations by age 2. There is a pretty strong correlation here.

Mercury is suspected in other disorders like ADD, ADHD and other learning disabilities that have become literally epidemic.

Who stands to benefit: Big pharma will make billions medicating the symptoms of these children and on into adulthood, but now I sound like a crazy "conspiracy theorist" right.

Just a little food for thought.
 
Old 12-27-2009, 12:39 AM
 
46,948 posts, read 25,984,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekester View Post
To say that vaccines cause autism is a misnomer.
Probably true.

Quote:
It's the Thimerosal (mercury) in childhood vaccines that is in question. I don't think that anyone is trying to reverse the practice of vaccination. They simply want to insure that mercury is no longer contained in them. There are other adequate, and far safer preservatives.
We have good data at our disposal, here. There are in fact countries where thimerosal has been completely removed. If thimerosal was a factor in autism, you would have expected to see a marked drop in autism rates. That didn't happen - and that pretty much blows the thimerosal-autism link out of the water.

Here's a cohort study involving 467,000 Danish kids (UHC is great for this sort of stuff) - that's every child born between 1990 and 1996. There is no statistically significant difference in the autism rate discovered in kids who received thimerosal and those who didn't.

JAMA -- Abstract: Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism, October 1, 2003, Hviid et al. 290 (13): 1763

More interestingly, another study located no link whatsoever between the mych-maligned MMR vaccination and autism - 537,000 kids this time:

NEJM -- A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism

It's probably a good thing, overall, that thimerosal was removed - the less mercury we dig up, the better - but there seems to be no causal link.
 
Old 12-27-2009, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Terra firma
1,372 posts, read 1,548,971 times
Reputation: 1122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There has been plenty of serious investigation into this. Thimerosol has been removed from all but some influenza vaccines, and never was in many vaccines to begin with. Immunized children have no higher incidence of autism than unimmunized children. Some of the "researchers" who have supposedly found correlations with vaccines and autism have been accused of "professional misconduct" in Britain, only to come here to the US and continue their misinformation campaign.

Immunization Action Coalition (IAC): Vaccine Information for Health Care Professionals

Vaccine Concerns: Autism
I haven't seen a serious look into the apoE4 issue in regards to autistic children.

While they did start to take Thimerosal out of childhood vaccines, they didn't recall the batches that were already out there. Right now, as we speak, some kid is getting injected with mercury. Also, it's been stated by the CDC that current childhood vaccinations still have "trace" amounts of mercury. Why should they have any?

There was a study done on the isolated population of the Amish who don't vaccinate and only three kids were found with autism. It was later revealed that those kids had outside exposure through relatives and were vaccinated.

Also, let's just say that it isn't the vaccines. What is it then? People need to understand that there is no such thing as a genetic epidemic. The idea is ludicrous. There has to be something in the environment to cause any epidemic.
 
Old 12-27-2009, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Terra firma
1,372 posts, read 1,548,971 times
Reputation: 1122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Probably true.

We have good data at our disposal, here. There are in fact countries where thimerosal has been completely removed. If thimerosal was a factor in autism, you would have expected to see a marked drop in autism rates. That didn't happen - and that pretty much blows the thimerosal-autism link out of the water.

Here's a cohort study involving 467,000 Danish kids (UHC is great for this sort of stuff) - that's every child born between 1990 and 1996. There is no statistically significant difference in the autism rate discovered in kids who received thimerosal and those who didn't.

JAMA -- Abstract: Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism, October 1, 2003, Hviid et al. 290 (13): 1763

More interestingly, another study located no link whatsoever between the mych-maligned MMR vaccination and autism - 537,000 kids this time:

NEJM -- A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism

It's probably a good thing, overall, that thimerosal was removed - the less mercury we dig up, the better - but there seems to be no causal link.
Hello Dane_in_LA,

Don't get the idea that my mind is made up on the Thimerosal issue. I simply don't know. There are a lot more cases of autism now than there were 3-4 decades ago. Do you have any idea what the cause may be. Genetic epidemics are impossible. There has to be something in the environment.
 
Old 12-27-2009, 12:55 AM
 
46,948 posts, read 25,984,404 times
Reputation: 29441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Some of the "researchers" who have supposedly found correlations with vaccines and autism have been accused of "professional misconduct" in Britain, only to come here to the US and continue their misinformation campaign.
Wakefield, right? There's a piece of work.
 
Old 12-27-2009, 01:25 AM
 
971 posts, read 1,294,582 times
Reputation: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekester View Post
Hello Dane_in_LA,

Don't get the idea that my mind is made up on the Thimerosal issue. I simply don't know. There are a lot more cases of autism now than there were 3-4 decades ago. Do you have any idea what the cause may be. Genetic epidemics are impossible. There has to be something in the environment.
I have no evidence as to this being a cause nor have I ever read anything to suggest it, but another environmental thing that has increased DRAMATICALLY over the last 4 decades or so is marijuana consumption.
 
Old 12-27-2009, 02:05 AM
 
31 posts, read 74,930 times
Reputation: 32
Zekester, thank you so much for the information about the apoE4 variant. You may have given me the missing piece of a puzzle that I as both parent and medical professional have been trying to solve for 20 years.
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