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Old 05-20-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: The Heartland
4,458 posts, read 4,186,167 times
Reputation: 760

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
Opinion based on years of military training. Can you say the same?
No Ma'am, I went to enlist after High school but because I had cancer when I was younger and lost a kidney they would not allow me in. My Dad was an MP in WWII, I have five Uncles, a brother and several cousins who also served in WWII or Vietnam.

I understand that HistorianDude does not care for Mr. Lakin but if you will go to the link I provided showing Lakin's decorations, how could anyone belittle his record by placing their self above him. The man has a bronze star and because Historian Dude does not, he belittles the mans bronze star. I looked up the bronze star on Wikipedia and it says that the bronze star can be awarded for bravery as well as merit. The V is an award for combat heroism (LINK) and according to Dude "As to the opportunity to "demonstrate valor," as a military doctor he is formally a non-combatant under the Geneva Convention."

HistorianDude says that he has a "Humanitarian Service Ribbon" which according to Wikipedia is just a meritorious award. LINK

Again, I only posted it to show that Lakin was no rube who has no idea what he is doing.

 
Old 05-20-2010, 12:40 PM
 
1,503 posts, read 1,153,273 times
Reputation: 321
The question isn't Lakin's decorations. The question is a LTC refusing a direct order to deploy. Let's keep focused on the issue.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,051,059 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT View Post
No Ma'am, I went to enlist after High school but because I had cancer when I was younger and lost a kidney they would not allow me in. My Dad was an MP in WWII, I have five Uncles, a brother and several cousins who also served in WWII or Vietnam.
Since none of them are you, the "No Ma'am" was all the response necessary to fully answer her question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
I understand that HistorianDude does not care for Mr. Lakin but if you will go to the link I provided showing Lakin's decorations, how could anyone belittle his record by placing their self above him. The man has a bronze star and because Historian Dude does not, he belittles the mans bronze star. I looked up the bronze star on Wikipedia and it says that the bronze star can be awarded for bravery as well as merit. The V is an award for combat heroism (LINK) and according to Dude "As to the opportunity to "demonstrate valor," as a military doctor he is formally a non-combatant under the Geneva Convention."
I do not belittle him because I do not wear a Bronze Star. I merely corrected the false impression that his Bronze Star was awarded for valor. Since your "research" has confirmed that everything I wrote regarding his Bronze Star was correct, why again do you continue to try and dismiss my demonstrated accuracy on this issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
HistorianDude says that he has a "Humanitarian Service Ribbon" which according to Wikipedia is just a meritorious award. LINK
Awesome. And since Lakin's Bronze Star is not a valor award (as you yourself have confirmed) it too is "just a meritorious award."

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
Again, I only posted it to show that Lakin was no rube who has no idea what he is doing.
Whoah. Excuse me? Your point was that Lakin was "no rube who has no idea what he is doing," and you thought stressing his decorations would make that point?

Until they come up with "Distinguished Intelligence Cross" or a "Mensa Membership Ribbon," I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

Lakin is a disloyal and seditious officer who has violated his oath along with the UCMJ... regardless of how smart he is or how well decorated he is. His gesture here is worse than merely wrong, it is also pointless and futile.

The fact that it is wrong is what allows me to question his fitness for the uniform.

The fact that it is futile and pointless is what allows me to question his mental capacity.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 01:15 PM
 
Location: The Heartland
4,458 posts, read 4,186,167 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Since none of them are you, the "No Ma'am" was all the response necessary to fully answer her question.
I will answer anyway I please.


Quote:
I do not belittle him because I do not wear a Bronze Star. I merely corrected the false impression that his Bronze Star was awarded for valor. Since your "research" has confirmed that everything I wrote regarding his Bronze Star was correct, why again do you continue to try and dismiss my demonstrated accuracy on this issue?
You failed to mention that a bronze star can be awarded for bravery not just meritorious service.


Quote:
Awesome. And since Lakin's Bronze Star is not a valor award (as you yourself have confirmed) it too is "just a meritorious award."
I believe it was for bravery, prove me wrong?
Quote:
Whoah. Excuse me? Your point was that Lakin was "no rube who has no idea what he is doing," and you thought stressing his decorations would make that point?

Until they come up with "Distinguished Intelligence Cross" or a "Mensa Membership Ribbon," I think you are barking up the wrong tree.
I believe a surgeon with a bronze star for bravery is no dummy.

Quote:
Lakin is a disloyal and seditious officer who has violated his oath along with the UCMJ... regardless of how smart he is or how well decorated he is. His gesture here is worse than merely wrong, it is also pointless and futile.
(IN your opinion) and then why are you attacking his record?

Quote:
The fact that it is wrong is what allows me to question his fitness for the uniform.

The fact that it is futile and pointless is what allows me to question his mental capacity.
You know...I was just thinking about why you are so adamant about Lakin, could it be that you actually care for the man and wish he would not take this coarse of action for his own good? Is there a soft side to you that you are not showing? I really hope this is the case, I could respect that and you if all this is because you simply care about a fellow serviceman.

I care about this man as well and honestly do not wish him any harm but, I know I cannot save everyone I care about if they choose a certain coarse that we believe is totally wrong. I also am not going to belittle him just because I am mad at his actions.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,051,059 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT View Post
I will answer anyway I please.
And you will get responses as a result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
You failed to mention that a bronze star can be awarded for bravery not just meritorious service.
Wrong again, Ranger. I absolutely did mentioned that. LTC Lakin's award, however, was NOT for valor. It was for meritorious service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
I believe it was for bravery, prove me wrong?
Sure. Here. Look for yourself:


His Bronze Star is the ribbon on the top row to your left. It does not have a "V" device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
I believe a surgeon with a bronze star for bravery is no dummy.
Too bad he is not one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
(IN your opinion) and then why are you attacking his record?
I am not attacking his record. I am correcting your inflation of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
You know...I was just thinking about why you are so adamant about Lakin, could it be that you actually care for the man and wish he would not take this coarse of action for his own good? Is there a soft side to you that you are not showing? I really hope this is the case, I could respect that and you if all this is because you simply care about a fellow serviceman.
I am adamant because he has violated his oath, and because he is a disloyal and disobedient officer. As a fellow officer it is my sacred obligation to call him on it. We police our own.

I certainly do consider it tragic that he taken such a foolish and self destructive step. Even though his career is not the paragon of achievement you seem to imagine, it was a solid one, and if nothing else he had earned the benefits of his labors, his rank and retirement. Now he has pissed all of it away... and for no reason whatsoever.

But he is not some wet-behind-the-ears shave tail. He is a field grade officer, and as such the example he sets for the rest of the service demands that he suffer the consequences of his choices. Anything else would be a full betrayal of the soldiers we lead and the Constitution we are sworn to defend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
I care about this man as well and honestly do not wish him any harm but, I know I cannot save everyone I care about if they choose a certain coarse that we believe is totally wrong. I also am not going to belittle him just because I am mad at his actions.
And yet... you seem perfectly willing to exaggerate the man's record because you approve of his actions? Please... do not embrace hypocrisy in such glib manner. It helps neither you nor him.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,047 posts, read 2,821,713 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
And you will get responses as a result.


Wrong again, Ranger. I absolutely did mentioned that. LTC Lakin's award, however, was NOT for valor. It was for meritorious service.


Sure. Here. Look for yourself:


His Bronze Star is the ribbon on the top row to your left. It does not have a "V" device.


Too bad he is not one.


I am not attacking his record. I am correcting your inflation of it.


I am adamant because he has violated his oath, and because he is a disloyal and disobedient officer. As a fellow officer it is my sacred obligation to call him on it. We police our own.

I certainly do consider it tragic that he taken such a foolish and self destructive step. Even though his career is not the paragon of achievement you seem to imagine, it was a solid one, and if nothing else he had earned the benefits of his labors, his rank and retirement. Now he has pissed all of it away... and for no reason whatsoever.

But he is not some wet-behind-the-ears shave tail. He is a field grade officer, and as such the example he sets for the rest of the service demands that he suffer the consequences of his choices. Anything else would be a full betrayal of the soldiers we lead and the Constitution we are sworn to defend.


And yet... you seem perfectly willing to exaggerate the man's record because you approve of his actions? Please... do not embrace hypocrisy in such glib manner. It helps neither you nor him.
There is a medical badge above the wings and ribbons..please tell us..what must a soldier do to wear it.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,047 posts, read 2,821,713 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by meson View Post
I wonder how many Manning followers know of his criminal past, Manning burgled
homes, mostly on Long Island. He spent about three and a half years in prison in
New York and Florida for burglary, robbery, larceny, criminal possession of a weapon,
and other charges before his release in 1978.
Obama broke the law.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,047 posts, read 2,821,713 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
And you will get responses as a result.


Wrong again, Ranger. I absolutely did mentioned that. LTC Lakin's award, however, was NOT for valor. It was for meritorious service.


Sure. Here. Look for yourself:


His Bronze Star is the ribbon on the top row to your left. It does not have a "V" device.


Too bad he is not one.


I am not attacking his record. I am correcting your inflation of it.


I am adamant because he has violated his oath, and because he is a disloyal and disobedient officer. As a fellow officer it is my sacred obligation to call him on it. We police our own.

I certainly do consider it tragic that he taken such a foolish and self destructive step. Even though his career is not the paragon of achievement you seem to imagine, it was a solid one, and if nothing else he had earned the benefits of his labors, his rank and retirement. Now he has pissed all of it away... and for no reason whatsoever.

But he is not some wet-behind-the-ears shave tail. He is a field grade officer, and as such the example he sets for the rest of the service demands that he suffer the consequences of his choices. Anything else would be a full betrayal of the soldiers we lead and the Constitution we are sworn to defend.


And yet... you seem perfectly willing to exaggerate the man's record because you approve of his actions? Please... do not embrace hypocrisy in such glib manner. It helps neither you nor him.
Many on this forum exaggerate Obama's record...some will say just about anything to improve Obama's standing.

LTC Lakin was awarded a Bronze Star while serving with a front line combat unit in a war zone.

Many soldiers commit acts of valor every day and are not awarded for it.

LTC Lakin treated wounded soldiers while bullets and shrapnel were flying.

Obama is not an American he is an African. LTC Lakin is an American soldier.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 02:38 PM
 
Location: The Heartland
4,458 posts, read 4,186,167 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Wrong again, Ranger. I absolutely did mentioned that. LTC Lakin's award, however, was NOT for valor. It was for meritorious service.
I think you are confused about bravery and valor. Please read my Wiki link on the bronze star which states that the V is for valor but that the bronze star can be awarded for bravery without a V. So as I said, you failed to mention that the bronze star can be awarded for bravery as well as meritorious service while being awarded with a V is a completely different award.


Quote:
I am not attacking his record. I am correcting your inflation of it.
Please point out where I have inflated his record.

Quote:
I am adamant because he has violated his oath, and because he is a disloyal and disobedient officer. As a fellow officer it is my sacred obligation to call him on it. We police our own.
Fair enough but until his actual conviction, this is just your "expert" opinion.

Quote:
I certainly do consider it tragic that he taken such a foolish and self destructive step. Even though his career is not the paragon of achievement you seem to imagine, it was a solid one, and if nothing else he had earned the benefits of his labors, his rank and retirement. Now he has pissed all of it away... and for no reason whatsoever.
I find this a lot easier to swallow but again, until he is convicted, it is just your opinion.

Quote:
But he is not some wet-behind-the-ears shave tail. He is a field grade officer, and as such the example he sets for the rest of the service demands that he suffer the consequences of his choices. Anything else would be a full betrayal of the soldiers we lead and the Constitution we are sworn to defend.
This is the only point I have been trying to make by posting his record.

I would like to think that there is a way that he may not suffer the consequences but he might. I say, we will not know until after the court martial if it ever happens.

By the way...if it does not happen, will you find that strange and maybe question what is going on with BHO?


Quote:
And yet... you seem perfectly willing to exaggerate the man's record because you approve of his actions? Please... do not embrace hypocrisy in such glib manner. It helps neither you nor him.
Again, where have I inflated his record? I neither approve or disapprove his actions because they are his actions and who am I to try to tell him how to run his business. I have said that I understand his actions and respect his choice. Knowing that if things go against him, he is the only one who it will effect is a selfless act. Taking the chance that he might be right knowing the possible outcome is to me heroic and will effect an entire nation.

I can see, looking from your point of view, how it makes you feel the way you do but, please allow others with differing views to post and debate them without being verbally bludgeoned by closed mindedness.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,047 posts, read 2,821,713 times
Reputation: 699
http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab264/Dragging_Canoe/obamabornabroad.png (broken link)
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