Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
To say the least, this bill as written is very unconstitutional, I expect to see it challenged in the courts. But to quote the speaker of the house when asked if this bill was constitutional, " Are you serious...Are you serious" this just goes to show you how ignorant she is on constitutional matters. You know, that thing that she took an oath to protect and defend.
To whom? And did it work? Did insurance and big pharma get what they wanted?
Since the R's have overwhelmingly voted AGAINST the health care bills, it MUST be the Dems giving insurance and big pharma what they want.
So why are they protecting them?
Good lord PLEASE stop feigning ignorance in a sad attempt to prove an errant point....
Simple question. If it were up to the left alone (and I mean liberals.... Those your ilk accuse of being "socialists".... Obama included as he always included in those accusations), would this bill or would it NOT contain a single-payer system or a government option?
And WHO exactly would that governement option/single-payer system scare the MOST in the health care debate?
FACT of the matter is that this bill is watered-down crap. There are some good things in it, but a lot of it is useless IMO.... Is it better than nothing? Again, IMO yes, but it isn't NEAR what needed to be done I don't believe....
The left isn't "protecting" big insurance. The left had to cede things to them in order to get moderates on-board.....
I know you know this. I know you know the right has been against this from day one with the help of big insurance and big pharma.... For you to somehow claim now that the right is (excuse the bad pun) on the right side of the argument with regard to pandering to these special interests is purely unadulterated hogwash....
Hard to even argue about a bill we really know very little about though. Sure, we know some of the basics and some of the provisions (like cornhusker kickback), but why won't our trusty elected officials trust us with seeing the 2000 page monstrosity for ourselves?
Simple question. If it were up to the left alone (and I mean liberals.... Those your ilk accuse of being "socialists".... Obama included as he always included in those accusations), would this bill or would it NOT contain a single-payer system or a government option?
Ummm... It IS left up nearly exclusively to the left. Exactly WHO is voting for the bill WITHOUT single-payer or a government option?
Quote:
And WHO exactly would that governement option/single-payer system scare the MOST in the health care debate?
Apparently, the Dems as THEY are the ones voting for the bill without them.
Quote:
FACT of the matter is that this bill is watered-down crap. There are some good things in it, but a lot of it is useless IMO.... Is it better than nothing? Again, IMO yes, but it isn't NEAR what needed to be done I don't believe....
The left isn't "protecting" big insurance. The left had to cede things to them in order to get moderates on-board.....
It's moderates, now? I thought the right was your bogeyman.
Quote:
I know you know this. I know you know the right has been against this from day one with the help of big insurance and big pharma.... For you to somehow claim now that the right is (excuse the bad pun) on the right side of the argument with regard to pandering to these special interests is purely unadulterated hogwash....
Make no mistake - the left sold out to the insurance companies and big pharma, much like Obama sold out to Wall Street. Deep down inside you know that. You're just grasping at a 'blame-the-right' straw man argument so that you don't have to face the fact that the Dems are mostly single-handedly shoving a pile of sh_t down Americans' throats as pay-back for more 'contributions' to their campaign warchests.
"At this moment, the top nine recipients of campaign cash from the health sector in the 2010 election cycle are all Democrats, led by the $467,000 for Reid and including $126,000 for House majority leader Steny Hoyer and $125,000 for Pelosi. Reid and Pelosi are also the top PAC recipients from the health sector, with Hoyer coming in fourth." Who will stand strong in heat of healthcare fight? - The Boston Globe
Big business switched their financial support to the Dems when the Dems took over Congress in 2007, and we're seeing that play out now in Obama's sellout to Wall Street and the pile of cr_p health care bill. Business abandons GOP for Democrats - Jeanne Cummings - POLITICO.com
Informed Consent, most of the left wants single-payer. How is that "selling out to big insurance"?
You are confusing "democrat" with "left". Democrats can be moderate or left. The left could not get enough moderate votes to get a public option (in the senate), much less anything resembling a stepping stone towards single-payer.
So now we will be experimenting with "universal" privatized coverage. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully good.
On a side note, I just love how everyone believes politicians are like evil superheros - trying to destroy all of us. Imagine putting 500 of us city-data posters in a room and being told to form a bill. We would all be attempting to put our beliefs and our needs into it. This is why bills come out haphazard ... cause not only are they a mish-mash of the left and the right ... but a mish-mash of various subgroups in the left and the right (in this case, the various subgroups of the left - "moderates" and "left" or liberals).
Also, fwiw, there is no health reform bill yet so arguing about the senate bill as if it were the actual bill is a waste of time. It is being shaped and will be a comprimise between the senate and the house bills.
Oh come on. It's just hussein obama filling the pockets of all the insurance companies. It's not like he hasn't made it clear he intends to bring the people to their knees financially.
You didn't want a public option
Congratulations, you win!!! Now give all your dough over to some private corporation that's going to ********* instead. That's your prize, enjoy!!
Oh, but hurry up to reconcile and pass it behind closed doors so that Obama can trumpet his health care 'accomplishment' at the state of the union address next month.
Hurry, hurry, now... Obama's already voiced displeasure at how long it's taking:
Obama vents frustration at Senate delays - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091224/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_health_care - broken link)
And, apparently, Obama intends to punish us but protect the insurance companies because in his own words...
"I'm getting 95 percent of what I want."
Indeed, but he's has brought us Change, don't u like it!
Informed Consent, most of the left wants single-payer. How is that "selling out to big insurance"?
How? They're voting for a bill that benefits insurance companies and big pharma.
Quote:
You are confusing "democrat" with "left". Democrats can be moderate or left. The left could not get enough moderate votes to get a public option (in the senate), much less anything resembling a stepping stone towards single-payer.
Exactly my point. Rhett Butler wanted to blame it on the right. The reason a single-payer/government option bill can't pass is the Dem moderates. Get the Dems in line, and Congress can pass whatever they want. They don't need the right's votes to make it happen.
Quote:
So now we will be experimenting with "universal" privatized coverage. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully good.
Obama, the corporatist. Who knew? Did he run on the corporatist platform during his Presidential campaign? I don't believe so. Then, why is that what we got after his inauguration? Obama hoodwinked millions.
Quote:
On a side note, I just love how everyone believes politicians are like evil superheros - trying to destroy all of us. Imagine putting 500 of us city-data posters in a room and being told to form a bill. We would all be attempting to put our beliefs and our needs into it. This is why bills come out haphazard ... cause not only are they a mish-mash of the left and the right ... but a mish-mash of various subgroups in the left and the right (in this case, the various subgroups of the left - "moderates" and "left" or liberals).
Don't forget that Congress does not have to draft bills. They can be drafted by anyone, including lobbyists. Bills must, however, be introduced by a member (or members) of Congress.
Quote:
Also, fwiw, there is no health reform bill yet so arguing about the senate bill as if it were the actual bill is a waste of time. It is being shaped and will be a comprimise between the senate and the house bills.
We'll see who gets what. Too bad it isn't the open process that Obama promised.
Yes, it is. However, this is what the progressive consider "good".
Why do you think the Democrats refused to entertain any tort reform proposals by the Repblicans? Follow the money....
Both parties are corrupt.
I am a progressive and by NO means do I consider this crock of bs bill good.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
at the state of the union address next month.
