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The GOP has been nothing but a negative force when it has come to the healthcare debate this entire year. We know what they are against. I have yet to figure out what they are for other than just leaving a moribund system the way that it is. I suppose they are also for tort reform, but fail to acknowledge that even if you eliminated the entire malpractice system, you'd only save 1% of all healthcare expenditures.
Nobody seems to grasp the real issue with "Cadillac Health Insurance Plans". Its not some bizarre scheme to persecute the "haves" in society. The Cadillac Health Insurance Plan is a problem because it offers so many benefits to recipients that it encourages over-utilization of health care services. There is an amount of health care--just like any resource--that become superfluous and unnecessary. Cadillac Health Insurance Plans include benefits like elective plastic surgery and medical treatment with no deductible. Over-utilization of healthcare has the effect of driving up the costs for everyone.
Frankly, the unions turning against Obama are the last thing I'm worried about. I'm much more worried about the lies and misinformation that opponents of healthcare reform have flooded the airways with.
The republicans plans for healthcare and many things have been posted on this board many many times. Google is your friend.
So you think republicans should praise something they nor the majority of Americans agree with or support?
How are they going to get around taxing the unions? State workers and teachers have the most out of this world benefits I can't imagine they'll be taxed though since they are the voting block supplying all this crap.
That is not what you said. You said that we pay top dollar for "bottom-of-the-barrel" performance. Your quotes only back up the paying top dollar not the "bottom-of-the-barrel" performance.
Dude, you're ON the bottom of the barrel when you've got hundreds of thousands of people bankrupted by medical bills in your country and the total in all these other countries keeps coming in at zero. Just one way we're on the bottom of course. We have the worst coverage, the worst rate of death from amenable causes, and some of the worst numbers of deaths from simple medical mistakes. Life expectancy? Infant mortality? Not so good. Percentage of health care costs not going to any actual health care? Ugh!!! I'm afraid flag-waving just isn't going to save you on this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aejarak
Judging from your post i assume i am correct and you have never experienced another country's health care then.
Personally, no. Have to rely on the spouse and daughter-in-law there. One grew up in Germany, the other in Italy. Families still live there. They wonder what the heck is wrong with us. That's when I tell them about people like you all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aejarak
Health care is a boring debate as the only thing you can fall back on is your own sense of morality.
No, you can also run some cost-benefit numbers. Horrible today, and getting worse faster all the time. That should be enough to get people off the dime all by itself.
The Blue Dog Dems are constantly praised on this board by right wingers for holding out on the health care vote for more concessions to corporate lobbyists.
Yes they are Dems. Dems allied with corporate lobbyists and the GOP.
The majority of Dems did prefer to tax the wealthy, but the right and these bad Dems won that round.
So for the vast majority of Americans who have health plans at work we will be taxed 40%.
thanks Dem's tax my income when I'm healthy and when I'm in health trouble tax my health insurance. then when i die tax my death.
Dem's way of life, tax them when they are healthy , tax them when they get sick tax them when they die. Got to Love Democrats and all the help they are bringing the Middle class
And I am sure this argument will be ever so comforting to the unions as their membership is taxed to the eye balls. Come November they'll remember.
Taxed to the eyeballs? Got some numbers to show me on that, because I'll tell you, I have that same cushy health insurance that Congress has, plus I've got dental, vision, and long-term care plans piled on top of that, and an FSA that's funded to the max. And at a limit of $23K per family, I don't pay a dime in tax. Might be different come 2014 of course, but very probably not. I'll be sure to let you know.
If this disaster is ever passed the country will applaude the Republican's efforts to stop it.
Yeah, just like we have national holidays today for those who tried to stop Social Security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
This poster swerves intothe truth. The desire to tax Cadillac health care plans is a veiled attempt at rationing.
Like a free-market system that keeps 47 million from even having health insurance isn't rationing??? If you're going to rely on sloganeering and empty buzzwords, at least apply them consistently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
I like the way their benefits lead to "over utilization" I am sure the beneficiaries would disagree with you.
Oh, they can have all the procedures they want. But with a tax, insurance providers will start to tailor plans to keep total costs under the trigger. That means those at the very high end will start to pick up more deductibles and co-pays, thereby having a greater stake in keeping a lid on what they do.
The "Cadillac'' provision is not in the reform bill passed by the House; labor movement is more pleased with the House effort and union leaders expect to lobby for the House bill when it enters conference.
Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-Va.) on the reporters’ conference call with union leaders: “The Senate has gone into territory with their excise tax that most certainly will affect the middle class.”
Connolly predicted that the House version would win out.
“Once we sit down in the conference, I can guarantee you that the excise tax as it is currently crafted in the Senate bill will not survive,” Connolly said.
Do you have good health insurance? If so, It'll cost you more in taxes...
"In a meeting at the White House, Obama expressed his preference for the insurance tax contained in the Senate's health overhaul bill, but largely opposed by House Democrats and organized labor, Democratic aides said. The aides spoke on condition of anonymity because the meeting was private. House Democrats want to raise income taxes on high-income individuals instead and are reluctant to abandon that approach, while recognizing that they will have to bend on that and other issues so that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., can maintain his fragile 60-vote majority support for the bill."
AP sources: Obama OKs taxing high-end health plans - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100106/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul - broken link)
Organized labor is going to love this, what with their cushy cadillac benefits and all. They'll be singin' the SEIU 'Obama's taxin' my health care' blues.
Again such Transparency!
These people are so out their next campaign!
Dude, you're ON the bottom of the barrel when you've got hundreds of thousands of people bankrupted by medical bills in your country and the total in all these other countries keeps coming in at zero. Just one way we're on the bottom of course. We have the worst coverage, the worst rate of death from amenable causes, and some of the worst numbers of deaths from simple medical mistakes. Life expectancy? Infant mortality? Not so good. Percentage of health care costs not going to any actual health care? Ugh!!! I'm afraid flag-waving just isn't going to save you on this one.
pure spin
yes thousands of bankruptsies due to medical...but you forget MILLIONS of bankruptsies due to over-extending, job loss,,and has NOTHING to due to medical
life expectency???...the difference between us and the top industralized country... a half a year to three-quarter year
infant mortality.....has nothing to do with medical...has to do with life styles...mostly drugs
percentage....maybe SOME as far as insurance....but for many 100% goes directly to the actual cost..... why because insurance is not care...and single payer is still insurance, which is not care.
the libs dont care about your medical care..they care about CONTROL.... control your money and your BODY and they control YOU
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