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Old 03-09-2015, 08:40 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,770,768 times
Reputation: 2418

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
You said it best.
Did you catch the part about climate change denialism?

 
Old 03-09-2015, 08:47 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,365,912 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
Did you catch the part about climate change denialism?
And you know of course that I believe in climate change?

I see a main primary driver that is different than what is currently accepted, but yes I believe.
 
Old 03-09-2015, 08:55 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,770,768 times
Reputation: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
And you know of course that I believe in climate change?

I see a main primary driver that is different than what is currently accepted, but yes I believe.
But you don't understand denialism.

Denialism: what is it and how should scientists respond? | European Journal of Public Health

Quote:
The Hoofnagle brothers, a lawyer and a physiologist from the United States, who have done much to develop the concept of denialism, have defined it as the employment of rhetorical arguments to give the appearance of legitimate debate where there is none, an approach that has the ultimate goal of rejecting a proposition on which a scientific consensus exists.
You are a denialist.
 
Old 03-09-2015, 09:13 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,365,912 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
You are a denialist.
My opinion about AGW is this. Soot started it, a feedback loop carried it forwards. CO2 is an also ran. I don't deny the input from CO2, but the Ocean has a stinking large thermal mass to it and that is what you have to warm up to get global warming going. Thousands of years of lag. I remember the first rather crude computer models.


That is the social group I am a part of. And it is stinking hard to cross that groups group think.

But...

I do think for myself. And if anyone was willing to have a nice civil discussion about what is going on with the climate and what should be done about it I'd be a very willing participant. And I do have a lot to offer a discussion on the matter.
 
Old 03-09-2015, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,374,702 times
Reputation: 4188
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
My opinion about AGW is this. Soot started it, a feedback loop carried it forwards. CO2 is an also ran. I don't deny the input from CO2, but the Ocean has a stinking large thermal mass to it and that is what you have to warm up to get global warming going. Thousands of years of lag. I remember the first rather crude computer models.


That is the social group I am a part of. And it is stinking hard to cross that groups group think.

But...

I do think for myself. And if anyone was willing to have a nice civil discussion about what is going on with the climate and what should be done about it I'd be a very willing participant. And I do have a lot to offer a discussion on the matter.


Berkeley has some interesting research on the hive mind theory which has been in the news the last few years. Very interesting theory and how group think affects politics, science, the workplace, and even extended families. Check it out when you have time.
 
Old 03-09-2015, 10:18 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,442,952 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
"Deniers" is a politically oriented term that alarmists constantly use in an effort to be manipulative, and to stifle discussion and the expression of dissenting views on this topic.

The term “deniers” is what people who have denied the holocaust are commonly referred to – as in “holocaust deniers”. By using this term, the AGW alarmists are collectively trying to associate people who have doubts and concerns about this alarmist movement with Adolph Hitler and his murderous campaign against the Jews.

So these are the tactics that the left has devolved to here.
 
Old 03-10-2015, 09:31 AM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,770,768 times
Reputation: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
"Deniers" is a politically oriented term that alarmists constantly use in an effort to be manipulative, and to stifle discussion and the expression of dissenting views on this topic.

The term “deniers” is what people who have denied the holocaust are commonly referred to – as in “holocaust deniers”. By using this term, the AGW alarmists are collectively trying to associate people who have doubts and concerns about this alarmist movement with Adolph Hitler and his murderous campaign against the Jews.

So these are the tactics that the left has devolved to here.
Holocaust denial and climate change denial are alike in that they involve people refusing to accept the consensus view, not in that they both involve Adolf Hitler.

Anyone with a degree of critical thought in their heads would understand this-- but of course, that doesn't apply to quite a few people who participate in these threads.

I don't even know why I'm responding to you, because you're possibly the biggest, most frustrated troll on these boards and your entire goal seems to be proving to yourself and others that Liberals are subhuman and evil.

Here's the article again:

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/1/2

Quote:
There is an overwhelming consensus on the evidence among scientists yet there are also vocal commentators who reject this consensus, convincing many of the public, and often the media too, that the consensus is not based on ‘sound science’ or denying that there is a consensus by exhibiting individual dissenting voices as the ultimate authorities on the topic in question. Their goal is to convince that there are sufficient grounds to reject the case for taking action to tackle threats to health.
Sound familiar?

Quote:
The Hoofnagle brothers, a lawyer and a physiologist from the United States, who have done much to develop the concept of denialism, have defined it as the employment of rhetorical arguments to give the appearance of legitimate debate where there is none, an approach that has the ultimate goal of rejecting a proposition on which a scientific consensus exists.
 
Old 03-10-2015, 10:11 AM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,770,768 times
Reputation: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
My opinion about AGW is this. Soot started it, a feedback loop carried it forwards. CO2 is an also ran. I don't deny the input from CO2, but the Ocean has a stinking large thermal mass to it and that is what you have to warm up to get global warming going. Thousands of years of lag. I remember the first rather crude computer models.
Didn't we go over that already?

Soot was and continues to be a problem, and in some areas it does surpass CO2 as a climate change driver, but CO2 is still the primary driver globally. Feedback loops from water vapor would take days to disappear if the CO2 balance in the atmosphere returned to pre-industrial levels.

As for the ocean taking 'thousands of years' to release heat:

Rapidly Warming Oceans Set to Release Heat into the Atmosphere - Scientific American

And your understanding of the timeframe of the lag is based on outdated information:

Ice Core Data Help Solve a Global Warming Mystery - Scientific American
 
Old 03-10-2015, 10:28 AM
 
14,295 posts, read 9,628,992 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
"Deniers" is a politically oriented term that alarmists constantly use in an effort to be manipulative, and to stifle discussion and the expression of dissenting views on this topic.

The term “deniers” is what people who have denied the holocaust are commonly referred to – as in “holocaust deniers”. By using this term, the AGW alarmists are collectively trying to associate people who have doubts and concerns about this alarmist movement with Adolph Hitler and his murderous campaign against the Jews.

So these are the tactics that the left has devolved to here.
Meanwhile "the pause" in warming where global surface temps have remained flat, has been ongoing for 17-19 years now, and people like him, the global warming alarmists, deny that fact.

To the CAGW alarmists, the warmists, the man-made global warming enthusiasts, etc... the definition of a "denier" is anyone who dares to disagree with their frantic, apocalyptic dooms-day predictions, that's all.
 
Old 03-10-2015, 10:31 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,185,350 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyandclaire89 View Post
.....

I guess AL was right....



Chilly politics: Gore ice sculpture back in Fairbanks

Chilly politics: Gore ice sculpture back in Fairbanks: Alaska Newsreader | adn.com
Sure he was, and he's been getting very rich off this scam.


More Evidence Of Climate Data Tampering By NOAA? | The Daily Caller
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