Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
PS - GM & Detroit were not killed by unions they were killed by inept management with a different adgenda.
Ineptitude comes in many flavors. I would hold that plenty of the ineptitude seen in management of the big three over the years was caused by layer, upon layer of union contracts that essentially hamstrung...... hell, neutered management.
Eventually management had to come up with a "different" agenda, to fight back the only way they could.
I have to wonder why this residents of this city have allowed it to decay the way it did. Why they have/are not taking care of their houses? Why they vandalize their own city? Why they destroy buildings with graffiti? Why they trash where they live?
Can I take a shot at the answer? It's because they don't pay for it themselves so they have no respect for it.
I would never own, operate or manage a non-union plant. I would expect the union to provide trained reliable workers to show up and do their jobs for a negotiated salary.
If a UAW worker fled Detroit, would you hire them in a non-union plant?
Dont know how it would shake out today.
I know back in the day, when a union worker was hired into a non union plant, there was typically a push started to "unionize" that plant shortly thereafter. The UAW, for one, used to pay a "finder's fee" of sorts to someone that could organize a new plant for them. I know this first hand.
The more employees, the bigger the payout. Remember, once a plant was "organized", all the employees paid union dues, by way of automatic payroll deduction, NO choice. It was a huge $$$$ maker for the unions.
Back then, if your employment history included work in a union shop, you were more often than not, passed by if applying at a non union shop. There were actually attorneys(and probably still are) that specialized in defending small shops from union organizing activities.
Unions had a noble cause at their inception. But they eventually became little more than a legalized, protection scheme. Looking at the history, it is easy to see the influence that organized crime had on the unions.
Yachtcare has spoken.......
Last edited by Compression; 01-11-2010 at 06:53 AM..
I would never own, operate or manage a non-union plant. I would expect the union to provide trained reliable workers to show up and do their jobs for a negotiated salary.
If you owned the shop, you would be cutting your own throat to volunteer it to the union.
If you "operated" or "managed" a plant(i.e., you were a member of "management"), and tried to volunteer it to the union, you would certainly not be adhering to your fiducuary responsibilities to your employer. You would be summarily dismissed from your job, with cause, and would have no legal recourse.
In fact, you could not vote for, nor have any contact with a representative, of any union, as a member of management.
I have worked with union and non union employees and greatly prefer the latter because I did not have to take the time to train the former but I did have to educate the latter. The union guys cost more but were much more effective and the increased productivity more then made up their higher salaries. In the job that involved the union/non-union situation I made more money from the union guys than the non-union workers. I was "adhering to my fiduciary responsibilities" even if higher management hated the idea of unions.
Just because "Yachtcare has spoken" does not mean he is either correct or telling the truth.
I have worked with union and non union employees and greatly prefer the latter because I did not have to take the time to train the former but I did have to educate the latter. The union guys cost more but were much more effective and the increased productivity more then made up their higher salaries. In the job that involved the union/non-union situation I made more money from the union guys than the non-union workers. I was "adhering to my fiduciary responsibilities" even if higher management hated the idea of unions.
Just because "Yachtcare has spoken" does not mean he is either correct or telling the truth.
Well, my experience is with the UAW in Detroit. That's kinda the subject matter here.
Different types of unions, particularly those where "journeymen" are concerned likely have, and I can certainly see, the potential for different styles of management. And levels of co operation between labor and management.
A plumber, or electrician for example, has a given skill set. Training, and productivity play a big role in that scenario. In an assembly line scenario, skill is somewhat diluted as an issue. One person does the same repititious thing over and over, it's drudgery, and the scenery never changes. Until you undergo some "training" to learn how to turn a different screw on some other part of the line(yes, I'm simplifying for the sake of brevity)but I think you get the drift.
But for clarification, Management owes it's loyalty to the company. The "union" owes it's loyalty to labor (the employees), that's what the employees pay dues to the union for, the union "representation" of their concerns with management. And never the twain shall meet, in anything other than an official capacity, if it is to be binding. That's why you have "union stewards" on the floor of every department of a union shop.....so the small grievances can be dealt with on a local, efficient level. Prove me wrong.
I would never own, operate or manage a non-union plant. I would expect the union to provide trained reliable workers to show up and do their jobs for a negotiated salary.
Many of the people here are stuck in a stereotype about unions that is no longer true for most of them. Training people to keep up with changing new technology and the jobs market is a big focus right now and has been for a while now.
Last edited by Wayland Woman; 01-11-2010 at 08:50 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
