In 1993, President Bill Clinton was seeking to restore Aristide to office - but was thwarted by the Republicans (Iraq, Reagan)

[KRAMERCAT]

'Hardball' and Dumbed-Down US Politics

In 1993, when Democratic President Bill Clinton was seeking to restore Aristide to office, I was in Haiti working on a PBS "Frontline" documentary. Part of my job was to spend time with operatives of right-wing paramilitary groups supporting the dictatorship of Gen. Raoul Cedras.

Some of these operatives told me about faxes and other messages they were receiving from Republicans in Washington advising them how to frustrate Clinton's initiatives for restoring Aristide to power. Those efforts, in fact, were turned back by a violent confrontation at the Port-au-Prince docks when the USS Harlan County tried to land, humiliating Clinton and the United States.

Now, that was real "hardball" politics: Republicans undercutting the foreign policy of a sitting U.S. President to make him look ineffectual and feckless.
A year later, Clinton saw no choice but to oust Cedras through a U.S. military invasion. Aristide was restored to the presidency but his final months in office were tightly restricted with him serving primarily as a figurehead.

When Aristide was elected again in 2001, he faced renewed hostility from the Haitian elite and from the second Bush administration, which helped engineer his removal from office in 2004, airlifting him against his will to the Central African Republic.

Haiti's History
Matthews might have shown a touch of seriousness himself by examining some of the real history that has put Haitians in their wretched condition. He might have talked about the ruthless efficiency of the 18th Century French plantation system that literally worked enslaved Africans to death for the enrichment of the pampered French aristocracy.

Or he might have delved into the hypocrisy of French revolutionaries (and some of their U.S. sympathizers, like Thomas Jefferson) for advocating equality for all while rejecting freedom for African slaves; or Haiti's remarkable slave rebellion that defeated Napoleon's army and how that victory forced Napoleon to sell the Louisiana territories (ironically to President Jefferson).

Or Matthews might have taken the story through the 19th Century, describing how the hostility of France and the slave-owning United States combined to devastate Haiti's hopes for a better future. The French used military coercion in 1825 to force Haiti to agree to indemnify France 150 million francs (about $21.7 billion in today's value) while the United States embargoed Haiti and denied it diplomatic recognition until the U.S. Civil War in 1862.

Or the "Hardball" host could have described how bloody U.S. military interventions in the early 20th Century were rationalized to "restore order" but in reality protected American economic interests. U.S. Gen. Smedley Butler later wrote of his role in crushing a popular Haitian uprising as making Haiti "a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in."

Matthews also might have explained how the United States backed the brutal Duvalier family dictatorships from 1957 to 1986 when Haiti was considered a frontline state against Washington's Cold War fear that Fidel Castro's communist revolution in Cuba might spread across the Caribbean.
Or how Haiti's nascent moves toward democracy through the elections of popular ex-Catholic priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide were undermined by Republican distaste for "liberation theology," which called on the Church to follow Jesus's teaching and align itself with the poor versus the rich, a position that the Reagan administration viewed as akin to communism.
Aristide's elections were overturned by coups in 1991 (during George H.W. Bush's presidency) and in 2004 (with George W. Bush in the White House) while the U.S. government either tacitly or directly sided with the coup plotters.

'Hardball' and Dumbed-Down US Politics | CommonDreams.org

[HappyTexan]

Well I find that lately the US backs the "wrong guy" for the job - a guy who will be a US puppet.
Aristide is no saint; there was some corruption but it was nothing compared to Papa Doc or Baby Doc.

The people of Haiti have never been dealt a decent hand by any nation in their history.

[tinman01]

uhmmm That is the problem with nation building isn't it. We support who we think is best without regard for the natives.
But the question begs. Why don't the Haitians stand up and take control for themselves? Obviously they are not happy. Who could or would be?
The same reason the mission in Somalia failed, the same reason Afghanistan is likely to fail and Iraq as well. We can't impose what we think is right. It has to be the native population.
Vietnam. We backed the wrong horse. That horse came to us for help before the horse turned to Russia. We were less concerned with what was right for the people and more for what was right for us. Now what party got us into that one?
Its not a party issue. Its an elitist issue.

[texdav]

So you are saying that Clinton was trying to force a regime change.If i remmeber just a year ago democrats were trying thru funding to stop the foreign policy of another president by forcing him to agree to terms to get funding.So waht your really saying is that clinton and other accuse Bush of nation building when in fact he did this very thing.Bascically it comes as no surprise that the two parties might disagree with who to sup[port. It alos comes as no surprise that you might have been given false infomation for the purpose of those telling you. Do you really beleiev everything your told. sounds like tehy should have actually given you such documents;otherwsie to pass on unsubstaniated rumor that flow in any militray group. Anyone that has serviced can tell you about that;it even happen in our military.

[KRAMERCAT]

Originally Posted by texdav

So you are saying that Clinton was trying to force a regime change.If i remmeber just a year ago democrats were trying thru funding to stop the foreign policy of another president by forcing him to agree to terms to get funding.So waht your really saying is that clinton and other accuse Bush of nation building when in fact he did this very thing.Bascically it comes as no surprise that the two parties might disagree with who to sup[port. It alos comes as no surprise that you might have been given false infomation for the purpose of those telling you. Do you really beleiev everything your told. sounds like tehy should have actually given you such documents;otherwsie to pass on unsubstaniated rumor that flow in any militray group. Anyone that has serviced can tell you about that;it even happen in our military.

No, he was just trying to re-instate a democratically elected president who was ousted by Republican supported, CIA engineered coups. Clinton was actually much more of a progressive than people credit him for being.

[evilnewbie]

Why on earth would Kramercat support a "lesser of two evils" instead of finding a good person instead, I don't know... I don't think I will ever understand liberal logic...

[KRAMERCAT]

Originally Posted by evilnewbie

Why on earth would Kramercat support a "lesser of two evils" instead of finding a good person instead, I don't know... I don't think I will ever understand liberal logic...

Are you calling me a 'liberal'? Because if you are, you are mistaken. Does a 'liberal' call for the entire dismantling of the Welfare system? I do. Does a 'liberal' call for finding a balance between a woman's right to choose and right to life? Well, maybe. Clinton was a deeper soul than many give him credit for being. His female excursions are certainly what any man can relate to. He wasn't Christ, he was a man who had a conscience, and like Carter, and was summarily pummeled by some rather evil souls.

[JimMe]

Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT

'Hardball' and Dumbed-Down US Politics

In 1993, when Democratic President Bill Clinton was seeking to restore Aristide to office, I was in Haiti working on a PBS "Frontline" documentary. Part of my job was to spend time with operatives of right-wing paramilitary groups supporting the dictatorship of Gen. Raoul Cedras.

Some of these operatives told me about faxes and other messages they were receiving from Republicans in Washington advising them how to frustrate Clinton's initiatives for restoring Aristide to power. Those efforts, in fact, were turned back by a violent confrontation at the Port-au-Prince docks when the USS Harlan County tried to land, humiliating Clinton and the United States.

Now, that was real "hardball" politics: Republicans undercutting the foreign policy of a sitting U.S. President to make him look ineffectual and feckless.
A year later, Clinton saw no choice but to oust Cedras through a U.S. military invasion. Aristide was restored to the presidency but his final months in office were tightly restricted with him serving primarily as a figurehead.

When Aristide was elected again in 2001, he faced renewed hostility from the Haitian elite and from the second Bush administration, which helped engineer his removal from office in 2004, airlifting him against his will to the Central African Republic.

Haiti's History
Matthews might have shown a touch of seriousness himself by examining some of the real history that has put Haitians in their wretched condition. He might have talked about the ruthless efficiency of the 18th Century French plantation system that literally worked enslaved Africans to death for the enrichment of the pampered French aristocracy.

Or he might have delved into the hypocrisy of French revolutionaries (and some of their U.S. sympathizers, like Thomas Jefferson) for advocating equality for all while rejecting freedom for African slaves; or Haiti's remarkable slave rebellion that defeated Napoleon's army and how that victory forced Napoleon to sell the Louisiana territories (ironically to President Jefferson).

Or Matthews might have taken the story through the 19th Century, describing how the hostility of France and the slave-owning United States combined to devastate Haiti's hopes for a better future. The French used military coercion in 1825 to force Haiti to agree to indemnify France 150 million francs (about $21.7 billion in today's value) while the United States embargoed Haiti and denied it diplomatic recognition until the U.S. Civil War in 1862.

Or the "Hardball" host could have described how bloody U.S. military interventions in the early 20th Century were rationalized to "restore order" but in reality protected American economic interests. U.S. Gen. Smedley Butler later wrote of his role in crushing a popular Haitian uprising as making Haiti "a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in."

Matthews also might have explained how the United States backed the brutal Duvalier family dictatorships from 1957 to 1986 when Haiti was considered a frontline state against Washington's Cold War fear that Fidel Castro's communist revolution in Cuba might spread across the Caribbean.
Or how Haiti's nascent moves toward democracy through the elections of popular ex-Catholic priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide were undermined by Republican distaste for "liberation theology," which called on the Church to follow Jesus's teaching and align itself with the poor versus the rich, a position that the Reagan administration viewed as akin to communism.
Aristide's elections were overturned by coups in 1991 (during George H.W. Bush's presidency) and in 2004 (with George W. Bush in the White House) while the U.S. government either tacitly or directly sided with the coup plotters.

'Hardball' and Dumbed-Down US Politics | CommonDreams.org

And you think restoring that homicidal kleptocrat to power was a good thing?

[KRAMERCAT]

Originally Posted by JimMe

And you think restoring that homicidal kleptocrat to power was a good thing?

Are you talking about Aristide or G W Bush?