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TNhill, I do have a quick question though: there a couple posters on this forum who resort to this type of posting, along w/ "drive-by postings" or simply ignoring someone's response to them & going off on a tangent about something, this happens in 99.9% of their posts. Why do these posters not get reprimended or banned? These people just resort to ridiculous childish tactics & bring nothing to the table in terms of conversation, it's all BS. Just curious.
TnHill, thanks for putting "ad hominem" on your list. I confess, I never really knew what it meant when people would put it in their post.
I had to chuckle because after reading the Wiki link and the link another member posted, I found myself reading through these and saying to myself... whoops, guilty... whoops... ruht roh.
I found this online instructional to be quite informative.
It gives examples of the use of fallacies and argumentative tactics commonly used and If I'm not mistaken, it offers examples of news articles and how a given writer slanted or portrayed an event from their view. After all, what person is truly objective in this world?
I had to chuckle because after reading the Wiki link and the link another member posted, I found myself reading through these and saying to myself... whoops, guilty... whoops... ruht roh.
I found this online instructional to be quite informative.
It gives examples of the use of fallacies and argumentative tactics commonly used and If I'm not mistaken, it offers examples of news articles and how a given writer slanted or portrayed an event from their view. After all, what person is truly objective in this world?
LOL, I know I've done it too I'm sure. Sometimes it's hard not to get emotional. And I'm sorry if I got off-topic w/my other post.
TNhill, I do have a quick question though: there a couple posters on this forum who resort to this type of posting, along w/ "drive-by postings" or simply ignoring someone's response to them & going off on a tangent about something, this happens in 99.9% of their posts. Why do these posters not get reprimended or banned? These people just resort to ridiculous childish tactics & bring nothing to the table in terms of conversation, it's all BS. Just curious.
Well as High Plains pointed out, in forums such as these we get all walks of life. The requirement to post here is an internet connection, to be of a certain age, and to follow a very basic set of posting rules. This small criteria fits a huge segment of people and among them you have every age group, level of experience, race, creed, religion, political view that one can conjure.
Given this, who is to say poster "X" isn't someone who is 19 raised in a socially confined environment or that poster "Y" has only limited experience and exposure to such varied opinions. For some people, it may just be their nature to be combative and confrontational for the sake of it. To attempt to determine who is what is not something I would even want to do, so I turn toward two things, the posting rules and mental ignore.
Truth be known, if people ignored the intentionally inflammatory types and the drive bye silly posts which make the strangest of connection of dots, there would be little need for moderating. This kind of behavior only lives if it is fed a regular diet of attention and dies if it doesn't, and people so love a train wreck.
There is a great deal to learn from other peoples experiences and I know I have learned a good deal. We have some pretty sharp folks here, you just have to learn to sift through the overburden of material to find them. I have no real need to watch the news because it doesn't matter what is happening in the world, chances are it will get posted on this forum in the drop of a hat, and on occasion there are some really good stories over looked in cable news outlets that get offered here as links.
Well, as I pointed out, finding Spock logic is rare in any case, let alone here on this forum. I wouldn't expect it and as you said, it wouldn't be entirely applicable as many topics are subjective in their very nature, with those most commented on being approached with the strongest and most passionately held beliefs. Logic without emotional emphasis is next to impossible in the human species. (ie the abortion debate)
Would it really hurt to review and learn some of the examples provided in an attempt to elevate general discussion? Are discussions such as those that take place here and at the current level the best we should expect from people?
If placed on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being pure emotion and 10 being pure logic, I would hope that we could one day reach 5, as on the best day now, we are at a 2, (2.5 on a tremendous day) in my opinion. Even a 5 is a far away dream at this point.
As a fan of the original Star Trek, I have always wondered what it would be like to have a friend like Spock. Ah but that is another interesting topic.
I'm with you on reaching at least 5 on the scale of Emotion vs Logic. That may happen someday but I am sure by then I will be pushing up daisies, or in my case tumbleweeds. However, in the situation that exists in America where quality higher education is not equally shared, or sometimes not even desired, there will always be those who use more emotion than logic to back up their arguments.
As the Declaration of Independence reads, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,...". I guess it's those endowments that occur after the Creator gets through with people that causes the problems we now seek to resolve.
I see that list of yours every day in one form or another on this forum, some are employed more than others.
After all, this is NOT Great Debates.
...and everyday it is ignored by those who could stand the most to benefit from it. No, this is not Great Debates, and on most days it isn't even a debate at all, its rock hurdling, character assassination, and neener neener.
As I pointed out, it isn't just about this area of the forum, it is about lack of critical argument being taught as part of a standard educational curriculum. I am of the opinion that it is better to teach someone how to think instead of what to think, otherwise we become a nation of reactive followers watering our fields with Gatoraide.
As a fan of the original Star Trek, I have always wondered what it would be like to have a friend like Spock. Ah but that is another interesting topic.
I'm with you on reaching at least 5 on the scale of Emotion vs Logic. That may happen someday but I am sure by then I will be pushing up daisies, or in my case tumbleweeds. However, in the situation that exists in America where quality higher education is not equally shared, or sometimes not even desired, there will always be those who use more emotion than logic to back up their arguments.
As the Declaration of Independence reads, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,...". I guess it's those endowments that occur after the Creator gets through with people that causes the problems we now seek to resolve.
Beyond a quality higher education, wouldn't it seem reasonable to include a single class requirement to high school students in critical thinking or logical argument? I find this a fundamental and foundational aspect of all education, be it formal and by means of schooling as well as in day to day life. How anyone approaches any given problem during their day, I believe would be benefited by a more reasoned and deductive approach.
Most animals on earth react out of stimuli, be it fear, caution, instinct, whatever, but it is mans ability to logically reason problems that separates us from most other species. Yet in this modern age we seem to have a propensity to abandon this in favor of more visceral reaction and I find that strange.
As a fan of the original Star Trek myself, I could even offer the example of the three primary characters. Logic being represented by Spock, Emotion being represented by Bones and the median mix of the two being Kirk. I think there was even an episode "the two kirks" or something like that which delved into this very thing. Like many things, it is the balance between 1 and 10 in which we reach 5. Damn it Jim...
Well as High Plains pointed out, in forums such as these we get all walks of life. The requirement to post here is an internet connection, to be of a certain age, and to follow a very basic set of posting rules. This small criteria fits a huge segment of people and among them you have every age group, level of experience, race, creed, religion, political view that one can conjure.
Given this, who is to say poster "X" isn't someone who is 19 raised in a socially confined environment or that poster "Y" has only limited experience and exposure to such varied opinions. For some people, it may just be their nature to be combative and confrontational for the sake of it. To attempt to determine who is what is not something I would even want to do, so I turn toward two things, the posting rules and mental ignore.
Truth be known, if people ignored the intentionally inflammatory types and the drive bye silly posts which make the strangest of connection of dots, there would be little need for moderating. This kind of behavior only lives if it is fed a regular diet of attention and dies if it doesn't, and people so love a train wreck.
There is a great deal to learn from other peoples experiences and I know I have learned a good deal. We have some pretty sharp folks here, you just have to learn to sift through the overburden of material to find them. I have no real need to watch the news because it doesn't matter what is happening in the world, chances are it will get posted on this forum in the drop of a hat, and on occasion there are some really good stories over looked in cable news outlets that get offered here as links.
I guess ya just take the good with the bad.
LOL, ya take the good ya take the bad, you take 'em both...well, blah blah blah the Facts of Life. Yes, I should be putting people on ignore. However if I did that, half of a thread would be hidden, lol. But I do agree about learning about news stuff on this forum...many things have been on here first & foremost. I'll say that since coming on here I've heard many of the news stories from this forum since I don't actually go on the news anymore. So hey, kudos to you people who post the stories & post them correctly, with facts, with links & without bias.
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