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Old 01-22-2010, 05:30 PM
 
768 posts, read 940,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
Progressives generally believe in sharing the wealth that is made in the country to those who do not have it. They believe in order to better society to move economic profits from group to group via taxes, regulation and laws.
Any profits may not be inheritly bad but generally require the work of those "of lower income" of which the corporation or upper class individual would never obtain without them. They see anything that involves profit as greed and generally believe most people lied, cheated to get the money they gained. So to better society they believe in high "progressive" taxes on groups of individuals which may not be limited to the rich and move to the upper middle class to middle class to support the "needs" they believe will better society. In bringing down the incomes of others will over all increase the productive "needs" of the many.

So if you work hard they believe in stealing it from you to "CREATE" their version of FAIR.
Everyone works in many forms to gain money and income of which in turn they have to pay other for services and production. Everyone is paid for the job they do.
If you want a different one you must work to get a different one ETC.
Progressive ideas economically for some reason do not follow the same idealogy when it comes to social issues. If you want freedom for social issues I would expect economic liberty for all without stealing it from those who work sounds like you want to restrict money but wont restrict social choices.
Money is power and of which government can not enforce that power of the individual without the excessive taxes to support its force over "we the people"
Progressives are just as most every group is... interested in power over individuals and nothing more.
Liberty is a funny term, and it's not synonymous with raw, unadulterated capitalism.

we have a government fused with corporations, a legislature run by corporate lobbyists. Corporations control everything about you, whether you realize it or not. They control your economic impulses and that of your community. They control and manufacture your value system. And so on.

The difference is that this machine has an intuitive understanding of and an implicit desire to fool you; it can only take, not give.

Ultimately, people are weak, dumb, selfish, and need a leader. With Capitalism, unelected corporations run the country. In psuedo socialism, the government does. At least the latter is elected.

This is, of course, a grim view of humanity, and one many are not willing to settle with. So, the illusion of "freedom" created by a "free market" will continue. The more intelligent ones are at the top of the food chain benefiting from the perpetuation of this misnomer, and the dumber ones just need a "party" to belong to in order to justify getting up every morning for their awful jobs.
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,924 posts, read 14,111,175 times
Reputation: 16637
Why the "Progressives" (aka socialists, communists, collectivists) are anti-American.

Let us begin thus - - -

From the Communist manifesto:

"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

Amendment V, US Constitution 1789
... nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

"PRIVATE PROPERTY - As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and transmitted to another, such as houses, lands, and chattels."
- - - Black's Law dictionary, sixth ed., p.1217


COMMUNISM - the ownership of property, or means of production, distribution and supply, by the whole of a classless society, with wealth shared on the principle of 'to each according to his need', each yielding fully 'according to his ability'.
- - - Webster's Dictionary.

SOCIALISM - A political and economic theory advocating collective ownership of the means of production and control of distribution. It is based upon the belief that all, while contributing to the good of the community, are equally entitled to the care and protection which the community can provide.
--- Webster's dictionary

Recapping:
U.S. Constitution = protection for private property rights of the individual.
Progressives = elimination of the private property rights of the individual, replaced with collective ownership by the State.

If the government can take your property, for public use, without paying just compensation, that is prima facie evidence that you do not absolutely own private property.

Welcome to the People's Democratic Socialist Republic of America!
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:52 PM
 
768 posts, read 940,359 times
Reputation: 608
Oh, my.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Missouri
4,272 posts, read 3,780,152 times
Reputation: 1937
A short synopsis of an Encyclopedia Britannica article:

Progressivism was a response to the degradation of American society that had been going on since the end of the Civil War. The ideals of individualism and laissez-faire capitalism had grown stale, and were unable to stem the tide of poverty and slums, the disappearance of democracy in the cities and states under political machines, and the exploitation of labor by an alliance of government, industry, and finance.

Progressives at the time (late 1800's, early 1900's) rebelled against individualism and laissez-faire capitalism, turned their concern toward poverty, government responsiveness and accountability to its citizens, and an increase in governmental control over industry and finance.

A depression in the agricultural industry in the 1880's and an economic panic in the 1890's drove many people to progressive ideals.

What came out of the movement?
The driving out the political machines in the big cities and states; also, the direct primary, direct election of the U.S. Senate (they used to be elected by the state legislatures), the voter initiative, the referendum, and the recall. And legislation outlawing child labor, legislation providing protection for women laborers, and penal reform. Also, expanded charitable services to the poor and accidental insurance (workman's comp) for workers and their families. This is only the beginning of some of the great things that this country had accomplished in the 20th century (racial and gender equality, for example).

And Teddy Roosevelt; a person I admire very much.

What is Progressivism today?
Most people believe that it is like it was at the beginning of the 20th century, a socialistic movement dead set against the excesses of capitalistic and individualistic ideals.

Some, myself included, believe it is a movement dead set against prevailing political, social, and economic ideals; in this case the excesses of the old Progressivism itself as reflected in the Great Society, the current healthcare reform, and even the excess military spending which results in jobs for every congressional district; all very glaring exhibits of governmental inefficiency. It is a rejection of the conservative and liberal mindset that usually gets this country into some kind of trouble.
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:30 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,559,955 times
Reputation: 5943
I haven't read all the definitions so far posted, but have scanned them, so forgive me if I say something which has already been said...

Most of those who define themselves as "progressive" today are those who once defined themselves as "liberals" of the old radical 60's/early 70's variety OR...those from the younger generation who embrace the same (often taught by the former bunch).

It came about (IMHO) because -- predictably -- the "liberal" philosophy and programs of that era failed miserably, and fell into disrepute. Thus, the need -- as David Horowitz (once a member of the New Left) stated -- to "re-invent" itself under a new term.

Progressive sounds great. But eventually, its vision -- like liberal -- will be seen for what it is, and, up the road, the left will come up with something else which sounds good. But still embrace the same faulty premises. However, nothing in the underlying vision will change. Only how they refer to themselves.

One thing about we conservatives. We have no need to define ourselves as anything but...
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