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The People who have voted for him, and put there Heart and Soul in believing in a brand new Change and Hope, i truly feel sorry for, for they believed in Obama and his strong words of encouragement. A brand new President and Agenda's and an Administration like no other. We were not counting in the White Houe to be filled with the likes of THUGS, RACISTS, EXCONS, SOCIALISTS, ETC. with a tough thug style exterior, that you better agree with these guys, or there will be blackmail to deal with on some level. We did not expect Obama to be bailing out WALL STREET, BIG BANKS, AND THEN GIVING BONUSES ALSO. We were counting on a new enviroment in D.C. but it did not take long for many of us to realize, what this new enviroment would become. People who voted for obama counted on his NEW VISION AND HIS QUALITIES AND STRENGTHS to pull us thru very turbulent times. We did not count on his RHETORIC, and his do as i say attitude's. Obama may of had a vision, but his vision of HOPE AND CHANGE, WAS NOT DELIVERED.
Could you please define who, in particular, is a "thug" in the White House?
And what "tough thug style exterior" do you mean, exactly?
The mantra of the Bush administration - supported by well documented evidence and statements from staff - was more what you describe in terms of negating dissent. Obama's administration has been, by most accounts, pretty non-strong armed.
Republicans said from the beginning that they would work to stifle any health care bill in order to force Obama to fail and regain power. Why would someone work with that mindset? It's just power hungry and not focused on the best interest of the populace.
I wish Bush was the president you describe above. In reality, he didn't pursue terrorists. He got caught up trying to establish a strategic empire stronghold in the Middle East and took his eye off the ball.
Any president would have invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. That's not visionary. That's just politically necessary. That invasion had the support of 85% of Americans. What happened after - enduring an underfunded war he nearly forgot to focus on an unnecessary other war was far from visionary. It was inept leadership.
Thankfully, Obama is closing the door on the unnecessary war and ramping up what I still believe to be the necessary one (though its poor management under Bush has soured Americans to it). In the end, though, it is Obama who, in action and not just tough-guy rhetoric, is taking the fight to the terrorists and putting our money where his mouth is - which is to defend our nation.
I can't fault the guy for that.
This is not a war thread, so I won't go into much detail, but I find it very hard to believe that you feel that Barack Obama is fighting the war in Afganistan based off of his own convictions.
Putting a timetable on a war (18 months) wreaks of nothing but political positioning. He backed himself into a corner with campaign rhetoric and he knows it. If he were truly convinced that this was the "war of necessity" - his words - then there would not have been a timetable. Period. I"m not sure you or your counterparts understand what true conviction really is.
Last edited by AeroGuyDC; 01-23-2010 at 10:17 AM..
"The one thing the Cheneyites and Rovians have is nerve. They assert everything with utter certainty and confidence even though their record is appalling. Conservatives and liberals of doubt don't think or act that way. We are aware that we can be wrong; we try and analyze our own mistakes; we try to give a fair hearing to the other side. This can lead to an assumption that we are wusses. Or weak. But of course the opposite is true. It is the strong who can entertain doubt and the weak who cannot. Cheney is not a strong man; he is a bully hiding his own rank moral and political and national security failure. The whole point of the Obama candidacy - why he matters - is that he is a liberal of doubt. But he also showed in the campaign that this was a strength. And when he needed to, he revealed a ruthlessness and radicalism and won.
And that is why this moment is so vital.
He must not just rally the House Dems, he must rally the country. He must bring us back in. And we must back him up. This is not just about a centrist comprehensive health reform bill. It is about defeating an entire brand of cowardly, cynical, spin cycle bull**** that has brought this country down and promoting an adult and reasonable discourse that grapples with our problems.
That's what we elected him for. If he caves now, if he does not mount a huge effort to retain this bill, he will have surrendered on that critical ground. He will have lost his nerve. And if we cave now, all that work we did, all that energy, all that hope, will be squandered as the old politics gets its hands on our collective throats again.
I refuse to believe he has given up; and I refuse to believe we will. This moment is too important as a fulcrum on which this country's future hangs for him or us to give up now. The polls show a divided country. At this point in the adminstrations of my idols, Reagan and Thatcher, the polls were overwhelmingly against them. They faced them down and won.
Mr President, fight. Show you're a fighter. And start to enjoy it."
Suddenly this narcissistic, partisan hack of a president is a man of the people?? 0bama is a man of the special interest groups and lobbyists, his first year in office proved that.
Trying to lump 0bama in with some of the great leaders of the past century does not elevate him to their status, it just highlights how far removed from them he is.
If 0bama had any leadership he would have demonstrated it last year when he said he would ban lobbyists, ban all earmarks and veto the defense bill if it contained any pork, and demanded that health care discussions be opened up to C-SPAN cameras. But he signed bills, and shuffled off into the corner without a whimper.
Obama is creating an atmosphere where our international allies are afraid that our president is weak and does not have their backs, and our enemies are emboldened, we are so screwed as a nation, until we elect a real leader in the White House.
I wish Bush was the president you describe above. In reality, he didn't pursue terrorists. He got caught up trying to establish a strategic empire stronghold in the Middle East and took his eye off the ball.
You wanted Bush to run around the world chasing terrorists as if he were swatting at flies.
The root of terrorism has been fueled by the despotic dictators and theocracies in the Middle East, changing this part of the world is required, otherwise all you will do is kill one terrorist, another one comes from behind to replace him.
"The one thing the Cheneyites and Rovians have is nerve. They assert everything with utter certainty and confidence even though their record is appalling. Conservatives and liberals of doubt don't think or act that way. We are aware that we can be wrong; we try and analyze our own mistakes; we try to give a fair hearing to the other side. This can lead to an assumption that we are wusses. Or weak. But of course the opposite is true. It is the strong who can entertain doubt and the weak who cannot. Cheney is not a strong man; he is a bully hiding his own rank moral and political and national security failure. The whole point of the Obama candidacy - why he matters - is that he is a liberal of doubt. But he also showed in the campaign that this was a strength. And when he needed to, he revealed a ruthlessness and radicalism and won.
And that is why this moment is so vital.
He must not just rally the House Dems, he must rally the country. He must bring us back in. And we must back him up. This is not just about a centrist comprehensive health reform bill. It is about defeating an entire brand of cowardly, cynical, spin cycle bull**** that has brought this country down and promoting an adult and reasonable discourse that grapples with our problems.
That's what we elected him for. If he caves now, if he does not mount a huge effort to retain this bill, he will have surrendered on that critical ground. He will have lost his nerve. And if we cave now, all that work we did, all that energy, all that hope, will be squandered as the old politics gets its hands on our collective throats again.
I refuse to believe he has given up; and I refuse to believe we will. This moment is too important as a fulcrum on which this country's future hangs for him or us to give up now. The polls show a divided country. At this point in the adminstrations of my idols, Reagan and Thatcher, the polls were overwhelmingly against them. They faced them down and won.
Mr President, fight. Show you're a fighter. And start to enjoy it."
It was the nature of the Bush administration to leap without looking, but they were operating off of their agenda. Almost every major thing it accomplished was absolutely opposite of what Bush promised in his 2000 campaign. 3000 people dead in one act on American soil; a world rushing to the edge of financial disaster will knock you off of your agenda.
Big, unexpected disasters call for nerve and quick action.
Nothing unexpected has happened, so far, during the Obama administration. It has been allowed to stick to its agenda. There isn't a need for rash decisions when you are administering policy. Thoughtful consideration is what is needed. This administration performed great with the Afghan surge; however, pushing health reform before financial reform was a rash decision that was a mistake in this case. There is nothing wrong with reforming the health care system, but our great crisis is financial. There's where reform should be concentrated for now.
Great leadership requires a combination of nerve and consideration, but more importantly, an instinct to know when and where to use each.
Obama is creating an atmosphere where our international allies are afraid that our president is weak and does not have their backs, and our enemies are emboldened, we are so screwed as a nation, until we elect a real leader in the White House.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. The enemy is just that. They haven't changed one iota. You're simply repeating republican talking points here.
I think it best allydriver be ignored if you really want to intelligently discuss this thread topic as liberals.
The part of the OP I'd like to focus on is...
Quote:
"all that work we did, all that energy... will be squandered as the old politics gets its hands on our collective throats again."
Old politics is hack, weak, played out and... something liberals participate in every single day. Ask yourselves these few questions and see my meaning.
Is harborlady wrong to defend christians right to exist, or is she 'against me'... a hypocrite?
Who set the agenda of 'you're either for me or against me'?
How does the mentality 'you're either for ME or against ME' supplant the ONLY national unity we have... that piece of paper called the constitution?
How difficult is a conversation when all parties concerned are entrenched in forgone conclusions which they erroneously attribute to as personal identity, redirected off topic in defense of themselves?
Defending a premise presumes that premise is correct, betrayed by loaded questions. A sincere open question would allow for all potential answers to be considered. How frequently in this forum have libs used loaded questions under pretense of wanting to engage in dialog?
Olberman pointed his vitriole at democrats themselves a while back. He scolded them for their commitment to a blue pennant. He scolded them for being self serving. While I found his commentary to be partial truth, the truthful part is that america did not elect 'blue'. How harmful to the constitution have sub-category groups been when their zealotry is committed to the subgroup and not the constitution itself?
I am conservative in large measure on many issues. Years ago the method I used to adapt to this insane political environment was to establish a revised pecking order of identity. Many liberals have high five'd me from time to time because I've agreed with them. I also receive high fives from conservatives because I've agreed with them. I also receive rebuke from both. Neither 'community' is one I belong in because their solidarity is in service to an agenda, not to their country. How you conduct yourselves as a sub group... when you lose sight of yourselves as human beings, when you abandon logic, when the objective is to win at any price, liberals are indoctrinated to become neoconservatives. Please examine yourselves thoroughly.
But it's not all that's needed. You and several other of your ideological kin who post here always enter threads, throw their one or two line angry opinion, and then walk away as if what you believe is simply a cemented fact that merely need be stated.
It's not. I agree with the OP. Defend your position for once. Provide evidence for your claim in direct relation to the article without giving into radical tendencies.
One cannot deny that Reagan and Thatcher, both enduring tough economies, fought through the same negatives Obama faces today.
I also agree with the author of the opinion piece that this is a moment of truth for Obama. He has been extremely flexible on the health care plan, to the point that to even utter the phrase "government run" or "socialist medicine" was a flat out lie with a filibuster-proof majority and will be even more so going forward.
But, as Jon Stewart pointed out, Bush pushed through whatever disasters he wanted with far less majority than Obama has now. There are still 18 more Dems than Reps in the Senate, and that is a HUGE majority for a divided nation. No doubt it will balance, as it always does after 2 referendum elections, but until November he has this majority and needs to use it wisely.
This is perhaps the biggest test of his leadership yet.
Jon Stewart is a comedian.
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