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Just a thought........what would happen if homosexuality was proven beyond doubt to be indeed biological? I mean if women started getting abortions because their unborn children were found to have the genetic marker for homosexuality, how would that change the political discourse?
These are all great sounding reasons on the surface, however because I also accept studies that state that everyone is bisexual to an extent, then that would by its nature exclude the possibility that anyone is 100% one way or the other.
IDK, like I said, I just view this as more of an effort to define people and discredit their abilities who dont conform to the biological sexual orientation crowd's agenda. As any psychologist will tell you, the best quantification of his/her results is client self-identification...meaning that if the client says they are no longer feeling sad, then the psychologist mustnt tell him that "Oh well you're only no longer feeling sad, because you are being pressured by so and so to feel happy" or "You're lying to yourself, you're just claiming to feel happy so that you dont have to deal with your true emotions..."
I see this method being used here a lot, and according to psychologists, its not constructive to discredit people's feelings on x, y, z premises because it doesnt coincide with what they deem as improvement.
But are you saying you think that the vast majority of homosexuals who self-report that they did not choose their sexual orientation; or those who say they have known since they were children that they were different; or those that say they can't manufacture any sort of emotional, romantic or sexual feelings for people of the opposite sex.... are all lying? But those who are strongly religiously motivated to try to change their orientation are not?
If a person says to a psychologist or psychiatrist they aren't "sad", but everything from their blood levels of serotonin, to their behaviour and body language, to results of diagnostic instruments (basically a specifically targeted range of questions used to assess depression), does not align with the person's statement, then a psychologist will certainly challenge their statement. Irrational denial/avoidance is a commonly learned dysfunctional coping skill.
Do you think a psychologist is just going to accept that person's statement that they aren't "sad" as truth and say "Great! I'm glad everything is fine. Here's the bill". And what happens when that person goes home and connects a hose to his exhaust pipe and sits in his car with all the windows closed?
So...if you have a situation where a person goes to a psychologist and says "I'm homosexual but I want to be heterosexual because my minister and family tell me it's evil and disgusting and I'll go to hell and my mom says she'll kick me out and never see me again and I've read these "studies" that my minister gave me from this website jesussaveshomos.org (or whatever) that says if I just pray hard enough I can be heterosexual and they tell me thousands of gay men have been able to become heterosexuals....".
Doesn't this make you flinch at all?
If you really want to know if someone is lying or in denial about their sexual orientation I suppose they could hook up the mens penises to a penile plethysmograph or use a vaginal photoplethysmograph for women and monitor their response to lot's of videos of attractive males or attractive females. Somehow I doubt groups like NARTH or Exodus will ever put their "successes" to the test like that.
One of my older brothers who will be turning 60 next summer, told me a couple months ago that he blames the church for all of his self hatred. He has been married twice and divorced from both women. He has fought with his being attracted to men since he was a boy. He told me that he really tried to be straight and that he always felt guilty and full of sin, he tried so hard to be a good christian, but the self hatred and guilt impressed upon him from the bible and church was too much. I hardly recognize him anymore, his is just a shell of the brother I remember, he is letting his life fall apart around him and feels that it is gods will for his sinning willfully. I do not understand how he can still feel so much faith in the bible when it makes him hate himself.
The results of this study indicate that individuals who score
in the homophobic range and admit negative affect toward homosexuality
demonstrate significant sexual arousal to male homosexual
erotic stimuli.
These individuals were selected on the basis of their [self] report
of having only heterosexual arousal and experiences.
Furthermore, their [self] ratings of erection and arousal
to homosexual stimuli were low and not significantly different
from nonhomophobic men who demonstrated no significant increase
in penile response to homosexual stimuli.
These data are
consistent with response discordance where verbal judgments
are not consistent with physiological reactivity, as in the case
of homophobic individuals viewing homosexual stimuli.
What would happen if a few vehemently anti-gay posters on CD were tested with a penile plethysmograph ... I wonder?
You personally "know" it isn't biological then you link to a ridiculous strawman article from an anti-gay religious/political propaganda site "Americans for Truth about homosexuality"
No reputable reseacher in this field ever claimed there was a single gay gene that causes homosexuality or that homosexuality only has a genetic cause. That's the sort of ridiculous statement you'll find on sites like the one above.
What you WILL find if you read the peer-reviewed published literature is that researchers like Hamer and Mustanski have made statements like "There's a converging line of evidence between the hormonal studies, the genetic studies, and the neuroanatomical studies. My research has identified candidate genes within these new chromosomal regions that could link together all of these different findings”
Mustanski, B. S.; DuPree, M. G.; Nievergelt, C. M.; Bocklandt, S.; Schork, N. J.; Hamer, D. H. “A genomewide scan of male sexual orientation.” Human Genetics 116: 272-278, 2005 A genomewide scan of male sexual orientation. [Hum Genet. 2005] - PubMed result
So how do you "personally" know homosexuality "isn't biological"
I know because there are people who choose to be gay and people who choose to be straight all the time...despite their past lifestyles. I say that sexuality isnt biological because there isnt any concrete evidence supporting that it is. "Candidate" genes dont cut it for me...just like a "candidate" check from my employer wouldnt cut the mustard for me..lol...Denverkid's link said the exact same thing that yours does --- there are certain genes present in some gay men. Big deal...even your link states that the they did not find linkage to the gene in the full sample...
I mean, what happened to being free to believe what I want to?....you said that like three pages ago and have done everything from namecalling to falsely accusing me of linking an "Anti Gay" website...which I never even posted that link (this is the one link I did post, APA revises 'gay gene' theory (OneNewsNow.com) , and false allegations such as yours and other silly pursuits are precisely why I dont engage in internet "source wars")...it seems like you're just trying to find something to fuss about. Or you act like you've convinced yourself that Im some big bad anti-gay Christ guy who is saying that gay people should be terminated. Oh well, all I can do is state my opinion...I do rather enjoy dialoguing with denverkid though -- he/she presents some pretty solid arguments, with no personal attacks and pretty solid rationale.
Last edited by solytaire; 01-27-2010 at 12:05 PM..
But are you saying you think that the vast majority of homosexuals who self-report that they did not choose their sexual orientation; or those who say they have known since they were children that they were different; or those that say they can't manufacture any sort of emotional, romantic or sexual feelings for people of the opposite sex.... are all lying? But those who are strongly religiously motivated to try to change their orientation are not?
If a person says to a psychologist or psychiatrist they aren't "sad", but everything from their blood levels of serotonin, to their behaviour and body language, to results of diagnostic instruments (basically a specifically targeted range of questions used to assess depression), does not align with the person's statement, then a psychologist will certainly challenge their statement. Irrational denial/avoidance is a commonly learned dysfunctional coping skill.
Do you think a psychologist is just going to accept that person's statement that they aren't "sad" as truth and say "Great! I'm glad everything is fine. Here's the bill". And what happens when that person goes home and connects a hose to his exhaust pipe and sits in his car with all the windows closed?
No but thats what they're supposed to do...They arent supposed to keep badgering a client who has stated that they have become perfectly content with their lives, and convincing him or her that they are lying to themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
So...if you have a situation where a person goes to a psychologist and says "I'm homosexual but I want to be heterosexual because my minister and family tell me it's evil and disgusting and I'll go to hell and my mom says she'll kick me out and never see me again and I've read these "studies" that my minister gave me from this website jesussaveshomos.org (or whatever) that says if I just pray hard enough I can be heterosexual and they tell me thousands of gay men have been able to become heterosexuals....".
Doesn't this make you flinch at all?
why do people always bring religion into this? what is it with people's obsession with what ministers and pastors and shamen and whoever else does the hocus pocus hokey pokey think?..who gives a damn, what they think. If you're not comfortable being straight then be gay..if you're not comfortable being gay then be straight...whether some guy in a dress with a microphone thinks the toothfairy is going to rain "Hellfire and brimstone" down on you for it should be irrespective of the decision. I personally dont think praying changes anything...I doubt many straight or asexual people can just pray and change their sexuality either....YOU have to want to change. And like anything else, you have to work and make lifestyle changes to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
If you really want to know if someone is lying or in denial about their sexual orientation I suppose they could hook up the mens penises to a penile plethysmograph or use a vaginal photoplethysmograph for women and monitor their response to lot's of videos of attractive males or attractive females. Somehow I doubt groups like NARTH or Exodus will ever put their "successes" to the test like that.
yeah, ive heard about the weiner thing...they've already deemed that unethical and inaccurate as a guage to measure anyone's sexuality. One study found that married straight men flew into a rage because the weiner thing kept showing that they were catching boners when they were watching gay porn...lol
Last edited by solytaire; 01-27-2010 at 11:20 AM..
What would happen if a few vehemently anti-gay posters on CD were tested with a penile plethysmograph ... I wonder?
Did you know that penguins who have lost their chic have a parenting instinct so strong that they will try to steal a biologically unrelated chic from another penguin. Other times the chics are injured or killed by the beaks of these chickless adults as they try to rip chicks away from their real parents or fight over stray chics. This same parental urge is so strong that, lacking a real egg, they will warm a rock as though it were an egg. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are no gay penguins. There are super horny strait penguins that, in the absence of a female, will apply the same indiscriminate exuberance to copulating as to warming an egg-like object or feeding a chic, be it theirs or not. Think it's any accident that zoo keepers keep trying to pair up chinstrap penguins as "gay couples" to try to prove homosexuality is natural?
Ught-ohh! Someone broke the rules and put a female in with the "gay" penguins.
Sexual orientation is biological. Trying to get someone to "stop being gay" sends the message the wrong message. It implies that being gay is wrong, and it's not. Intolerance can be dangerous, especially given the alarming rates of suicide among gay youth. I would like the "reeducation" movement to stop.
yeah, ive heard about the weiner thing...they've already deemed that unethical and inaccurate as a guage to measure anyone's sexuality. One study found that married straight men flew into a rage because the weiner thing kept showing that they were catching boners when they were watching gay porn...lol
That's because most men (and women) are actualy bisexual to a degree. As long as no one finds out, lol!
That's because most men (and women) are actualy bisexual to a degree. As long as no one finds out, lol!
agreed!...lol...ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!
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