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Old 01-27-2010, 04:31 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,039,086 times
Reputation: 17864

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Oh please, do you really think these companies couldn't hire American employees, charge the same prices they are now and STILL make a profit? Yes, they might not make the same level of profit but they would still make profit just as they did in the past.
That's not the way it works because the competition or some upstart comes in and does produce their products overseas undercutting them. The company can no longer sell their product at the old price, it makes no money and they go out of business... again not greed. It's survival.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:45 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,294,643 times
Reputation: 10021
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
That's not the way it works because the competition or some upstart comes in and does produce their products overseas undercutting them. The company can no longer sell their product at the old price, it makes no money and they go out of business... again not greed. It's survival.
The American companies can match the prices offered by these upstarts and still make a profit. They might not make as much of a profit but they will still make a profit and be viable. Or these American companies can lower executive pay to maintain manufacturing jobs but we all know they will do the opposite first.

What is ironic is these American companies will soon learn they won't have people to buy their products considering access to credit has been lowered considerably. When people are employed, they spend.

It's assumed that price alone determines behavior and that isn't the case. A big reason Americans started buying Japanese products is they were better in quality. Even in the late 70's and early 80's, Japanese cars were considerably cheaper than American cars but were not in that much demand because they presumed to be of poor quality because they were smaller and uglier until people realized they started lasting a long time.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,478,139 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
China gained entry in 2001 - not 2000.

Ken
actually it was 1999, when the pact was signed

bring them under "permanent normal trade relations" in sept 2000

with the wto, accepting them in mid 2001

BBC News | THE ECONOMY | WTO hails China deal
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:33 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,326,009 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
actually it was 1999, when the pact was signed

bring them under "permanent normal trade relations" in sept 2000

with the wto, accepting them in mid 2001

BBC News | THE ECONOMY | WTO hails China deal
Isn't that what I said - China entered the WTO in 2001?

BTW - not sure where your "mid 2001" comes from. Date of your article is NOVEMBER 2001 (I wouldn't exactly consider that "mid").

Ken
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:45 PM
 
Location: NoVA
1,391 posts, read 2,645,975 times
Reputation: 1972
What I can't but help but wonder about is something that likely won't happen for decades. When these developing countries become more developed, after they've received the transplants of major portions other countries' manufacturing sectors, and they're making money, the workers are demanding higher and higher wages/salaries and increasing their quality of life up to where we're at now...

What's next?

Does it not follow logically, that after one or two generations of workers accustom themselves to a good standard of living, they're going to want future generations to have it even better than their parents/grandparents (like all parents do), they're going to want more administrative, managerial, executive and all-around white-collar jobs, will they not?

Are countries like the US supposed to offshore more and more white-collar jobs too? Sure some jobs will be created overseas and not require the sacrifice of an equivalent job somewhere else, but like factory jobs, many were not created overseas and instead needed to be imported. Executives of today may not have any qualms whatsoever with sending their factories to Malaysia, but what will they think if we have to send more offices overseas? How will they like it when their own jobs get off-shored? Face it, we can't all be CEOs, CIOs and CFOs. Will they still that as a fair and competitive, free market capitalist system?


Where does it all stop???


Maybe I'm over-analyzing this, but that's just my inquisitive nature.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:58 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,326,009 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♪♫♪♪♫♫♪♥ View Post
What I can't but help but wonder about is something that likely won't happen for decades. When these developing countries become more developed, after they've received the transplants of major portions other countries' manufacturing sectors, and they're making money, the workers are demanding higher and higher wages/salaries and increasing their quality of life up to where we're at now...

What's next?

Does it not follow logically, that after one or two generations of workers accustom themselves to a good standard of living, they're going to want future generations to have it even better than their parents/grandparents (like all parents do), they're going to want more administrative, managerial, executive and all-around white-collar jobs, will they not?

Are countries like the US supposed to offshore more and more white-collar jobs too? Sure some jobs will be created overseas and not require the sacrifice of an equivalent job somewhere else, but like factory jobs, many were not created overseas and instead needed to be imported. Executives of today may not have any qualms whatsoever with sending their factories to Malaysia, but what will they think if we have to send more offices overseas? How will they like it when their own jobs get off-shored? Face it, we can't all be CEOs, CIOs and CFOs. Will they still that as a fair and competitive, free market capitalist system?


Where does it all stop???


Maybe I'm over-analyzing this, but that's just my inquisitive nature.
It stops when the rest of the world has completed the modernization process - an event which will occur in the next few decades. At some point along that line more foreign countries will create jobs here than US companies create jobs overseas.

Ken
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Fly-over country.
1,763 posts, read 7,334,091 times
Reputation: 922
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadicBear View Post
Oh, I see. So, should people in Vietnam pay the same price for rice as we do in our supermarkets? If so, I'll show you a country that dies of starvation. Wages, and prices, represent local market fundamentals. That's BASIC. A software developer in Silicon Valley makes much more than one in the midwest.
For now, that may be true, but in a global market, there's no reason location has anything to do with the cost of labor. If I had some Silicon Valley hotshot asking 100K a year write code, you bet I'd be looking to better deal him in the midwest via telework -- or India for that matter.

How anyone can't see it is amazing.

Either stop buying cheap crap you don't need or stop complaining when the market moves the job making the cheap crap where labor cost is lower.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,793,866 times
Reputation: 1198
That's why I learned Spanish and am working on the border. Can't beat em, join em.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:50 AM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
12,350 posts, read 9,716,580 times
Reputation: 13892
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Your blaming Reagan, for something Clinton did in the NAFTA agreement in 1994 and the World Trade Organization(WTO) in 1995
Because it was Reagan who changed our course. Did you live that era as an adult?

Those of us who did know how our economic course drastically changed in the 80s.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:58 AM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,911,536 times
Reputation: 4459
if you want to read what caused our manufacturing base to leave, i would start with these articles:
Ron Paul, Free Trade | Ron Paul Library

i would start with this article in particular:
http://ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=331

The WTO has given us the worst of both worlds: We've sacrificed national sovereignty by changing our domestic laws at the behest of an international body, yet we still face trade wars. If anything, the WTO makes trade relations worse by providing our foreign competitors with a collective means to attack U.S. trade interests.
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